For Sale 05 Ferrari F430 Berlinetta F1- Rosso Corsa

The internet exposes title washed cars and hidden/undisclosed damage...I thank God for it.

Several folks on here are saying that deposits are inherently refundable unless stated otherwise. To me a deposit inherently is non-refundable....otherwise what's the point of a deposit?

Once a deposit is taken, the seller refuses all other offers (long distance as well as cash on the spot) and holds the car for seller until the PPI is done and a specified time has passed. To me, this is enough of a loss to the seller to justify keeping the deposit should the buyer decide not to complete the sale. To me this seller has every right to keep the deposit.

Best practice (which I follow) is to mention this beforehand and give a reciept stating that the deposit is non-refundable. A PPI on a 15 year old Ferrari is going to come up with a lot of repairs needed no matter what. The buyer deciding against the car forfeits the deposit. In many cases, when a major deal-breaker problem comes up a seller is nice and refunds it even though they are not required to. I've refunded and not refunded depending on the situation. If nothing major comes up and it appears the buyer is just trying to use the PPI to beat me down on price, I've kept the deposit.

As to this particular car, there was a lot of damage on the roof and drivers front fender, and this being repainted/repaired is not disclosed in the ad. I've updated VINwiki with the info on this car so hopefully any subsequent buyers google the VIN.

OP, this is a nice car and priced right for what it is, but you need to be honest about its bedtime stories. Also, even in the Ferrari world, a 3 year old 10,000 mile Turo proven clutch is not a "new" clutch.

 

So you don't want to keep his $650 for yourself. But you don't want him to have it back either. Nice.

 

I am all for allowing more liberal posts on a for sale item ,but this has gone off the charts.

 

Re: bolded, I concur wholeheartedly. a deposit, is a commitment to buy.

As for the cam variators, unless the seller falsely stated they had been changed, the buyer should have expected them to NOT be done, and offered/agreed upon a price accordingly.

There’s some questions with this vehicle, IMO, but the buyer does not seem to understand the process of buying a used car. You will never get a spotless PPI. If you do, your inspector is a fool. A used car is still a used car ie not new. If you want to back out of any imperfect PPI, then you should get it in writing that the deposit is refundable. But I personally would never deal with a buyer like that.
The fair thing for both parties is to agree that if the deficiencies in the vehicle add up to more than a certain value, then they can walk away or renegotiate. But that line in the sand should be agreed upon before hand.

 

What if he put down five grand and the ppi comes back very bad, like no compression in cylinder 5 because of blown piston? Should he get his deposit back?!?! He’ll ya!!!

 

says you or in gentler words, not necessarily.
the potential condition of the car could have already been baked into the price (ive bought and sold things that were on "as-is" terms and the understanding is, there could be a lot of TLC required and the price ALREADY reflects that), or a barn find, or simply not agreed as a sale with a contingency clause...that's why I said, its a good idea to establish what should happen if a certain value of deficiencies is incurred. You saying you want a PPI is fine, it doesn't mean theres an understanding that you will get your deposit back, and it doesn't mean theres been something deceptive if something comes up. its an old car that likely doesn't get used a lot. it just gives you the opportunity to walk away from it without going deeper down the rabbit hole of purchasing the thing.
my whole point is, don't assume a deposit is refundable. I see a deposit as part of the sales contract. so terms of the deposit should be mutually agreed upon as well. caveat emptor, which translated from latin to Canadian, means : anytime you hand over your money, you should know what the refund policy is

Now, as the seller if such a surprise would have come up, I would feel genuinely bad for the buyer and would refund the deposit. I couldn't take their money knowing that situation if the car had been represented as being in "good running condition", which obviously a blown piston would not be and would have been noticed, so the example may not be a fair one.

OTOH, what if the buyer simply got cold feet and was trying to get out of the deal over some petty issues and had wasted my time and possibly the opportunity cost of selling to others during prime selling season? hell ya, im keeping his deposit if not otherwise agreed upon. my time has value.

when you go to either extreme, its clear what is right.....when something happens in the middle, in the muddy, grey area, as it seems here, the answer isn't as cut and dry.

 

You’re right, nice write up, I agree. When talking about 6 figure cash deals I should probably keep my mouth shut as I’m no expert. there’s always another angle when posting something on the internet which I almost never do outside here and sparingly here.

 

Agreed Let’s get some perspective and Thanks for the cats.

$650 from $65k????
If we’re quibbling over $650 on a Ferrari there’s something amiss in the expectations. This goes into the line of conversation
“What is the gas mileage on a Ferrari? or what does the insurance cost?”

If you’re asking questions in this genre you don’t understand the vehicle or maybe cannot afford it.

 

Whichever side you stand on, sometimes $500-600 is a cheap way to learn that you don’t want to deal with the other party for a more significant value.

 

Donate to $650 to charity, delete this thread and start over.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

I can understand the aggravation as I've sold a few higher end vehicles to private parties as a private party myself. The deposit always comes with an agreement. If that wasn't clear in the beginning with a mini-contract of sorts, bad on both parties. These days even an email agreement would have solved a lot. Many places will not even take a deposit any more due to the BS tire-kicking folks who end up not being able to pay anyway. This takes the vehicle out of circulation and the dealer or seller only loses time and possible sales. I can see both sides, but in this case I'd return the deposit, minus nothing as the PPI is always part of the costs of the deal regardless of a sale. Going forward this is just another lesson learned for all of us. Good entertainment though

 

I am in the market for a 360, I ran a carfax and autocheck report on this car. Autocheck came back revealing more than carfax. I am still looking for a good clean one.