close call...now need a little 85 QV electrical help please | FerrariChat

close call...now need a little 85 QV electrical help please

Discussion in '308/328' started by Cuddy K, Jun 21, 2019.

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  1. Cuddy K

    Cuddy K Karting

    Oct 30, 2017
    181
    Full Name:
    Ian Karr
    Hi Guys,

    I started to smell burning plastic on my drive today, looked over at the passenger side and saw wisps of smoke coming up from the footwell. Scary. I pulled over and took the dash cover off (I have the birdman's fusebox upgrade), felt around and everything was cool. I looked a bit lower and saw that the carpet on the right side just under the fuse panel was melted and hot, along with one of those horrible in-line wire splice things (pic below). BTW the fuse in that plastic holder never blew. Anyway, it seems the PO rigged something...though I don't know what. I pulled the spliced part out and was able to drive home normally without any more issues.

    I checked my owners manual for the wiring schematic, but it's so teeny as to be useless (to me at least). Searching online for color diagrams seems to link back to some sketchy site that wants my email and probably social security number.

    The factory wires involved are 1) green and 2) green with black stripe. Given the white connectors, and the fact that there are two open spades on the right side of the fuse box, I'm guessing that they belong there. But before I just put them on, I thought I'd check the braintrust here and see if anyone can verify where those wires go and what they power. Thanks much!
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  2. Portofino

    Portofino Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2011
    576
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Liguria ( Italy )
    Full Name:
    Portofino
    What’s does the old OEM fuse box lid say ?
    Radiators front fan motors are far right of the right hand side pair iirc ?
    If it is the fan motor feed those wires look a bit inadequate , needs to be thicker .
     
  3. Cuddy K

    Cuddy K Karting

    Oct 30, 2017
    181
    Full Name:
    Ian Karr
    Thanks. Yes...it looks like the radiator fan wires. The OEM ones with the white connectors are def beefier than the MacGuyvered one used by the PO. Scratching my head as to why he installed this splitter with fuse. With smaller gauge wires. Maybe the old style fuse block was getting hot? From pics of fuse blocks I've seen online it looks like the green wire goes to second from right spade and green with black stripe goes on the far right. If someone else with a US QV could please post a pic of this area I'd be grateful. thanks!
     
  4. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,688
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    I'd suggest you get a (readable) wiring diagram/service manual. I downloaded it for my 328 years ago from a link on this site so I'm sure it can be found here somewhere. Absent the diagram, couldn't you just trace the two smaller (burnt) wires to see where they go and then decide what to do about it. Obviously, if they DO connect to the fans, leaving them disconnected is not an option. But why would anyone replace the factory fan wires with smaller gauge wires in the first place. Makes no sense...but so much electrical "makes no sense" stuff is done by folks... ;) Some of it is just amusing but other things - like what someone did in your car - is hazardous. :(

    Does your car have an alarm? Aftermarket alarm installation/wiring is, from my experience, the FIRST in the list of usual suspects for any troublesome electrical issues.
     
  5. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2012
    16,169
    Gold Coast, Aust.
    Full Name:
    Patrick
    From memory, I think the radiator fan wires are green. Your fusebox should easily handle the current draw - plug them back in
     
  6. Cuddy K

    Cuddy K Karting

    Oct 30, 2017
    181
    Full Name:
    Ian Karr
    Thanks, guys. All is well now. My guess is that the PO (DAPO) noticed that the fan wires were getting hot, especially being fed by the OEM fuse block, and decided to fuse them separately. Wouldn't have been as bad if he had used the correct gauge wire. I didn't notice his jury-rigging when I replaced my blocks with the Birdman's. All I did was plug the wires directly into the block, where they belong. The car actually runs cooler, probably because the fans are getting more amps and not losing power to heat. Crisis averted. Another reminder of why it's always important to carry a fire extinguisher.
     
  7. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,688
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    "Another reminder of why it's always important to carry a fire extinguisher."

    To me it's a better reminder to check/ensure electrical wiring is correct when dealing with a previously owned/unknown car, especially a car that seems so prone to PO 'upgrades' that are actually screw ups! :)
     
  8. Portofino

    Portofino Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2011
    576
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Liguria ( Italy )
    Full Name:
    Portofino
    I think the two fans up front draw or can draw ( the somehow increase there resistance as they age ) a pretty hefty current .
    That with those OEM fuses leads to “ up grades “ some decades later .
    I have a GT4 purchased last summer .
    Perusing thought the documentation I noticed a well known W London official F dealer had fixed an inoperable fan compliant.
    In mine those two RHS wires had been replaced using separate blade fuses with quite heavy gauge wires .
    Far thicker than any OEM .As a result the OEM block has been bypassed for the fans and the rhs spades disconnected .They made good the fan spades after a clean up too .
    I guess that’s where the issue starts corroded fan spades being exposed = inc resistance and the extra heat melts the what was ok ish guage fan wires when new ?

    I carry a fire ex it sits between the rear seats ( easy cubby in GT 4 ) for potential carburettor fuel fires 1/2 the reason and the other 1/2 in sympathy to the dodgy Italian electrics dictum .

    It’s all part of he 70 ,sF car ownership experience that sets them aside from Porches Carrera 3.0 , Mercs SL , and BMW,s 2002 Turbos .
    Which catching fire is low down in the psyche of the ownership.
     
  9. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,216
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    And the moral of the story is: Before replacing fuse boxes, check all connections and especially aftermarket botch.


    What I see on the pictures is no way "part of he 70 ,sF car ownership experience"
    Mike, I second your statement about aftermarket alarm systems. I had one installed by an official Bosch service and the car was never so unreliable before. I tore it off two years later and did a proper repair of the electrical harness with new wires.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
  10. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,816
    Ohio
    Full Name:
    Dave Meredith
    And further, going with the assumption that the wires here are indeed radiator fan-related, you need to get down to the core issue: Are your fan motor pairs drawing more amperage now than they were designed to do?

    Very easy to surmise that, with time, the pair of fan motor's armature shaft bearings have gone tight due to loss of lubrication.

    Give each blade set a spin by hand, comparing one to the other, and listen for any grinding, also noting any resistance to the free spin.

    Under the assumption that you will find something amiss, a tear-down of the motors and a drop or two of lubricating oil on each armature end will address the problem the correct way, instead of simply masking it by efforts to bodge around with the wiring.

    DM
     
  11. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2006
    4,078
    San Jose area
    Full Name:
    Brian Harper
    Dave80GTSi is correct that you should see if the fan motors are drawing more current because in general they are old and ignored, but probably a dodgy connection got finally got the point of no return.

    The fuse didn't blow because the circuit wasn't a short to ground. It likely wasn't drawing more power than before as the windings in the fan motors are still in place to act as a current limiter. It was, however, not putting that power where it should go. As the connection became worse it was actually drawing less power, but some of that power was going towards heating the connection instead of powering the fans. And it feeds itself from there. A warm connection starts to oxidize and increase resistance a bit, and it gets a little hotter.
     
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  12. Cuddy K

    Cuddy K Karting

    Oct 30, 2017
    181
    Full Name:
    Ian Karr
    #12 Cuddy K, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    Thanks, guys. Really appreciate all the input. A few updates...The fans are drawing from the fuse block and the wires show no abnormal heat. Spinning the fans by hand, they seem to turn freely without grinding. I think the main problem was that the PO used a single small gauge wire to power BOTH fans, and as that wire aged and hardened, the resistance increased to the point of melting. Unfortunately the botch was well hidden – tucked way up and behind the wire loom, wedged against the carpet (which made things worse). If I had seen the bypass, I would've addressed it right away. But as they say...it's the things you don't know that you don't know that really get ya. So I stand by my original statement about the importance of a fire extinguisher ;).

    It would be helpful if there were pics of how the connections are supposed to look at the fuse block (or which spades should be blank) so you could easily see if anything's amiss. The fact that some open spades are normal, and the wiring diagram is neither legible (in the manual) nor readily downloadable, makes it difficult to establish a baseline.

    Now...on to that slight miss at 2500 rpm ;)
     
  13. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    On my car, each radiator fan is on a separate fuse. And, this does match the label that's on the fuse block cover.
     

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