Do you agree with the steward's decision today? *** Spoilers *** | Page 7 | FerrariChat

Do you agree with the steward's decision today? *** Spoilers ***

Discussion in 'F1' started by Natkingcolebasket69, Jun 9, 2019.

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  1. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2009
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    Sid Korshak
    Has Elton ever crashed during a gp? Has he ever, for instance, crashed into a stationary car at the end of a pit lane?, has he careered into a gravel trap while entering the pits? Has he hit countless drivers, and one driver countless times?

    Drivers make mistakes, and I’m as annoyed as anyone with some of Sebs howlers, but yesterday there wasn’t much in it, the slightest slip of the rear tyre, a minute piece of gravel in the wrong part of the contact patch, anything could have caused the issue. That he saved it, recovered, rebuilt the lead and won the race without hitting anyone was a good job, and it was spoiled by overprotective stewards with no useful nor recent experience of f1.

    What a farce
     
    Bas and crinoid like this.
  2. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    We expect them to put it on the edge. Vettel's mistakes are bit poorly timed and unforced or impatient. His timing is never good it seems.
     
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  3. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    YES he wont do it in Monza this year......maybe LOL :)
     
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  4. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
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    Mark
    Baby steps... our goal for Monza is to stay on the track and stay facing forward. Seb needs to take this one race at a time.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  5. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2007
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    goodbye
    You've said that you "completely disagree" with my points (above). Please tell me specifically which points you disagree with:

    - Vettel lost control of his car. You disagree. Please tell me why.
    - Vettel put all 4 tires in the grass, off track. You disagree. Please show me the video you saw.
    - Vettel re-joined in a car out-of-control. Vettel himself has said this, but you disagree. Please explain.
     
  6. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    We shall see soon enough. A Monza win might save some people and their career's lol
     
    Mark(study) likes this.
  7. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    DJ
    He's already done it. Monaco 2016 vs Ricciardo. Of course there was no penalty because it's Lewis.
     
  8. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    Yep, I posted the vid in the racing thread sometime ago.
     
  9. Anthony_Ferrari

    Anthony_Ferrari Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Anthony Currie
    I was very angry at the end of the race. Seb threw away yet another Ferrari win by making a mistake when under pressure. When he did a similar thing in 2011 I was happy to see Jenson win, but this time he was in a Ferrari. The last time Seb got pole he threw it away (Germany 2018). I don't think Hamilton, Alonso, Kimi, or LeClerc would have made the same mistake in the same circumstances and I would love to see any of them being given number one status in the Ferrari team.
     
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  10. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447

    Yes, he has that habit of visiting the scenery when he is Under pressure.
    Vettel has a problem leading a race, which is quite uncommon for a top driver.
    Binotto is backing the wrong horse.
    It must be apparent now, that Leclerc is Ferrari's best hope.
     
    Anthony_Ferrari likes this.
  11. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Igor Ound
     
  12. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

    Apr 19, 2006
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    Peter Singhof
    Oh, is this why even with the off Leclerc was behind Seb? Because he is the much faster driver... so now any qualies did Leclerc win again this year?

    Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
     
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  13. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    He hates the sport now that he grew up loving lol. Fewer mistakes would help him find the love again. No matter the rules and Stewards Vettel is the only problem Vettel has.
     
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  14. PerKr

    PerKr Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2007
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    Per Kristoffersson
    looked to me like Vettel conciously steered back towards the race line after his mistake. Which would have been fine had he not had someone close behind who then had to brake not to hit him. It definitely looked like he could have stayed to the left but he chose to make an additional defensive move,
    Unsafe return to the track, I agree with that part. Instead of a 5 second penalty he should have been told to let Hamilton by so the race could resume as it would have had he not had that unsafe return.

    One can bring up Hamilton's seemingly similar move in 2016. But didn't people complain about him getting away with that? And now the stewards are expected to look the other way because it wasn't Hamilton doing it?

    Drivers and teams have to accept the rules and the rulings. Sour grapes sometimes, sure, but that's the game they've accepted to play. The way Vettel acted after the race was just ridiculous. Childish. Disrespectful. Deserving of further penalty even.
     
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  15. Anthony_Ferrari

    Anthony_Ferrari Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Anthony Currie
    I was happy with the way Seb acted after the race and I don't think he deliberately tried to block Lewis as he came back onto the track. I think he was just out of control as he'd made a mistake. If he hadn't made a mistake we wouldn't be having this debate. If he didn't keep making mistakes I'd be happy to keep him as a Ferrari driver, but he keeps cracking when under pressure so I think he needs to go.
     
    Thomas S. likes this.
  16. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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    With all the passion of heated debate following the weekend in mind, finding this in my morning feed made me laugh
     

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  17. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro
    I disagree with your point that he is pathetic, and that you counter he was not robbed.

    where in the FIA rule book does it say you must enter the track at all cost under control? this was a racing incident. As for Hamilton going for a pass - in that specific turn, that is crazy. There is no run off, no margin for error. So either Vettel is a tremendous actor and faked the whole thing ... and Hamilton was robbed because he had a pass already done ( which did not happen) or Vettel struggled with his tires - lost the back of the car, maintained control at high speed and recovered back on track - without hitting Hamilton who was going for a gap that was not there. At no point was Hamilton ahead of Vettel in that turn. the Stewards are imposing their own determination on the race and that is wrong. there was no contact, and it was not unsportsman like ... this was an accident.

    At best if you have to penalize him - give him a 1 -place grid drop in the next race... MAX. even then I think that is wrong. As I have stated given this level of interference by the FIA - the 1979 race with Villeneuve and Arnoux would have had both of them penalized out of the race.... and that did not happen. there has to be some room for actual racing and the errors that come with it. Do you race at all? or have you?
     
  18. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro
    I disagree completely. Karun Chandock did a great analysis of steering wheel angle etc... Vettel was doing all he can to keep the car on the track and not having a crash..... How on earth should Vettel have had to let him by? at no point was Hamilton ever AHEAD of Vettel even when the Ferrari was 4 wheels off. Mind you this is not a DE where 4 off - you go into see the pit steward....
     
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  19. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    Sporting regulations :

    - you can't rejoin unsafely ... but Vettel himself admitted that he had no control after being on the grass
    - you have to leave room, on the track, for another driver "alongside" (Hamilton satisfied the definition) ... but Vettel pushed another driver, alongside, completely off-track

    Maybe Hamilton picked a bad corner to pass, but he saw Vettel's blunder and went for it. Nothing in the sporting regulations prohibiting that!

    Yes, i have raced :) I understand the rules, and i have been penalized when i break them :(

    Regarding Vettel's penalty ... i would have much preferred that he give-up the place to Hamilton instead.
     
  20. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    some of the drivers, ex-drivers and former F1 WDC drivers what they said on Vettels penalty..............

    • Brundle - “may as well pack and go home”
    • Andretti - “not acceptable”
    • Herbert - “wrong, wrong, wrong”
    • McNish - “tough decision for VET”
    • Wurz - “a penalty? Not in my view”
    • Hill - “There was enough doubt to let them carry on.”
    • Mansell - “Very, very embarrassing”
    • Coulthard - “Whatever happened to racing?”
    • Chandhok - “Its just racing”
    • Button - “It doesn’t deserve a penalty”
    • Van der Garde - “Wouldn’t go to the podium if I was Vettel. Honestly.”
    • Webber - “Mental penalty”
    • Di Grassi - “MAKE RACING GREAT AGAIN!”
    • Chilton - “All drivers know Vettel could have not gone back to power and joined safely on the inside.”
    • Casey Stoner - “F1 that is the worst decision you have ever made”
    • Jason Plato - “Terrible decision”
    • Hamilton - “I’d have done the same as Vettel”
     
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  21. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    #171 werewolf, Jun 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
    ... may consider adding:

    Jolyon Palmer
    Nico Rosberg
    Keke Rosberg

    may also clarify:

    Chilton - "I can see it both ways"
    Hill - "My personal view is that he could have left more room"
     
  22. ebobh15

    ebobh15 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 18, 2012
    3,074
    I'm more of a casual fan (although I do get up in the middle of the night to watch races live, much to my wife's dismay and amusement), and enjoy almost all forms of racing from funny cars to Formula One. I've read the full string here and in the race thread, and know that supporters and detractors both have valid points. Vettel has had a habit of falling short at some critical junctures, and Hamilton's personality detracts from his world-class driving. My issue is that Formula One's optics are really bad, and the health of the sport from a fan's perspective is dropping like a rock.

    American football becomes less watchable all the time with TV timeouts, inane delays while referees watch replays, changing penalties each year that confuse fans, etc. Football (soccer to me) suffers from incessant flopping that draws undeserved penalties and delays the flow of the game (quick fix for that is that any player remaining on the ground more than ten second would have ti sit the remainder of that half). The ways in which stewards are granted in-race control of the flow of the race, coupled with the lack of passing, makes many of the F1 races pretty mundane, with occasional actual racing that is sanctioned by stewards. For me, it isn't so much that Vettel may have violated a specific sub-section of a rule implemented for another purpose that is now used to judge this instance, it is that racing (shoving, and bumping and grinding, and taking chances that may or may not work out) is taking a back seat to technology that allows a car to be faster in qualifying and almost guarantee a victory if the car makes it through the first turn at the start of the race.

    I'll still watch Monaco because I always have, and still watch Canada because the track is so challenging, and there is passing & pit strategy that makes a difference, but feel that stewards would do their job best when no one thinks about them during or after the race (like in football, where penalties shouldn't be noticed, because they are given when deserved, and not to parse the rules). In basketball, refs "swallow their whistle" in the last few minutes of games, mostly to allow the pace of the game, and the beauty of competitiveness, to take center stage. No matter if the appeal is upheld or rejected, the incident and the way FIA has handled it, serves only to push away people who aren't already dedicated fans IMHO.
     
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  23. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Peter Singhof
    Hahahaha.... Nico and Keke Rosberg??? A Mercedes ambassador and his dad... seriously??? You are soooo funny.....
     
  24. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    goodbye
    Oh i see ... no other drivers have a bias or agenda? Or do we only pay attention to the opinions of other drivers with whom we share the same bias?
     

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