355 - Rear brakes seizing after a major and Master Cylinder Replace 97 f355 spider | Page 2 | FerrariChat

355 Rear brakes seizing after a major and Master Cylinder Replace 97 f355 spider

Discussion in '348/355' started by Lionworks Auto, May 31, 2019.

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  1. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    Dec 15, 2012
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    Brian
    Now that you are having no symptoms you should put them back on and see what happens. I’d be willing to make a decent wager that it does not return by putting them back on. Something else was going on, e brake pads wore enough, the crude in the brake line acting as a check valve came loose... something. I don’t think there’s any way you could repeat the problem by property reinstalling those spacers.
     
  2. Andy 355

    Andy 355 Formula Junior

    Jun 2, 2013
    434
    Sydney
    So.. an independent specialist gives you a car back with 3 inches of brake pedal travel. Alarm 1. Master Cylinder replacement and within 5 miles the rear brakes lock on. Alarm 2, vehicle not road tested adequately. Symptoms disappear and the wheel spacers were the culprit. Alarm 3... thats the trifecta. Id hope the rest of the job didn't go like that. Keep us ladles posted lol.
     
  3. krazykarguy

    krazykarguy Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Fort Mill, SC
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    Matt
    Was it ever determined if it was the parking brake shoes or the primary brake pads causing the issue?
     
  4. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

    Oct 16, 2013
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    Ed
    The primary rear pads and would lock on tighter than can imagine. The front spacers fit much better and no issue from those.





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  5. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

    Oct 16, 2013
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    For all those others wagering it was the parking brake pads, it’s impossible. They never worked and doubt they ever did on the 355. Wouldn’t hold the car on a flat surface after 4 adjustments if your life depended on it.

    As for all the other issues, those were all double and triple checked. The braking is perfect and would be so until the rears heated up and now with these ill fitting spacers removed the drag/lock up problem is gone.


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  6. krazykarguy

    krazykarguy Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Fort Mill, SC
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    #31 krazykarguy, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    Apologies in advance if these questions have already been asked/answered...

    Did the shop TRY to correct the parking brake that 'never worked... on the 355' during this service?

    Is the car lowered significantly from the stock ride height? What's the camber and toe-in like (with the spacers installed) on the rear axles? The tread wear on the rear tires can tell you a lot about these settings.

    Not sure if it was mentioned or not, but are the rear primary pads brand new? Based on the condition of the rotor from the pic above I wouldn't think so.

    Is it one or both rear calipers locking up?

    Have you put a laser thermometer on the rear brake assembly looking for where the hot spots are?

    What is the rear wheel drag like with the car off the ground and in neutral? Can you hear the pads grinding against the rotors or just a faint whooshing?

    I'm just trying to get to a point where I could concur that the wheel spacers were causing the issue. Any deformation in the suspension geometry (significant enough to cause the pads/rotor to remain in contact while the brake pedal is NOT applied) caused by the spacer would be found in the wheel bearing. Even a crappy undersized wheel spacer would only be part of the clamped portion of the wheel/spacer/rotor assembly - it only changes the geometry of the rear suspension... I've seen kids running 'spacers' on their cars that were essentially a handful of washers that were not encountering this issue.

    Right now, I am still thinking it is some FOD in the hydraulic lines or an overenthusiastic adjustment of the parking brake shoes (with too much 'drag' with the parking brake off).
     
  7. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    The diameter of the spacers does not affect the load on the hub bearings in any way, the thickness of the spacers does (thicker spacers - more load). In any case, the additional load on the hub bearings by spacers of thickness of some 10-25 mm is not significant and the additional heat generated by the bearings due to such additional load is negligible (unless they are running dry). I have 25 mm spacers at the rear on my 348 with no issues at all.
     
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  8. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee

    Yuuup same deal with me 3 years now. 150 mph no issues , 400 miles in 110 degree heat no issues. Parking brake hold tight as can be
    Most definitely another issue rearing it's head in the background

    :)
     
  9. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    Not really any point in going any farther with this, he’s convinced it was the spacers and will no longer consider any logical explanation.
     
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  10. MAD828

    MAD828 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 8, 2011
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    My parking brake works fantastically well, I wouldn’t want to drive with it engaged that’s for sure. Something is up here.
     
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  11. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Yuuup I can lock my brakes up with mine no issue at all
     
  12. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    No mention of taking the rear calipers to bits and check if any dirt behind the pistons. Are the flexey hoses at the calipers the originals, as you can get these swelling internally and they trap the hydraulic fluid in the calipers, acts like a non return valve. Looking on the diagram assuming i am looking at the right one there appears to be line valves in the pipe between front and rear hydraulics, not sure what they do but it might be an idea to check they are not sticking due to dirty fluid. It appears you are getting pressure trapped in the rear calipers and lines, come back later and the brakes are free ? Pressure is returning to normal past an obstruction ?
     
  13. radlu

    radlu Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2005
    407
    You're
    Being Lied To.
     
  14. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula Junior
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    To the OP I seem to recall that your car was involved in a rear end off road collision several years ago just after you purchased it. If I am wrong please correct me but I only mention it because it could have affected what you are now having problems with regarding the brakes. I also find it hard to understand how the spacers could cause this type of reaction and feel it is something else that hasn't been found and will rear its ugly head again.
     
  15. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    Stop, it was the spacers. Come on.
     
  16. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Ha ha ha good one Brian but I think curiosity will bring him back too try out the spacers again
    Time will tell
     
  17. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    God i hope not
     
  18. radlu

    radlu Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2005
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    Rear end collision?
    Must have been a pretty bad one.
     
  19. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #44 Lionworks Auto, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    I
     
  20. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
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    #45 ferraridriver, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    Back when I had my repair shop, I specialized in Mercedes, I had this happen on a customer's Mercedes. It was almost new and I had just done it's first service, the 500 mile service, which included a parking brake check/adjustment per the manual.

    A few days later he called me and told me the rear brakes had locked so he had the car towed to the nearest place which was a MB dealer in Palo Alto. They told him the rear brakes had overheated so much that everything had to be replaced. It was several thousand dollars and my customer was worried about telling me as the MB shop said I was responsible because I had over adjusted the parking brake.

    I told him of course I would accept responsibility and to come by and let me see the invoice.

    He got about two or three blocks from the MB dealership and the car ground to a stop with the rear brakes locked again!!

    Turned out it was a bad master cylinder and the rear line was holding pressure enough for the pad/rotor friction heating to complete the job of locking the brakes.

    MB had to do everything again, dismiss all the charges, and he demanded an apology from them to me as well.
     
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  21. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    This is along the lines of what i was thinking- to do that much damage the hydraulic pressure has to be trapped in the rear calipers. Either from the master cylinder re this post or something to do with the fittings in the brake lines to the rear calipers.
     

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