mid engine corvette qtr panels leaked photo | Page 93 | FerrariChat

mid engine corvette qtr panels leaked photo

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by darkkaangel, Jul 30, 2017.

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  1. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I agree - I think it will be cool, but it won’t be like a Huracan or 458.

    I’m sure it could have been, but design language surely intervened. Look at the new Blazer, it has “Camaro” written all over it - not that it’s a bad thing, but a Blazer isn’t a Corvette.
     
  2. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Hey a 70K car can look like almost anything, at 70k price may relate to materials used not styling especialy whent he body is made from plastic and its a limited use two seater..
    The C2 didnt look remotely like a C1 and the C3 looked nothing like a C2. These 3 famous vette designes hewed to no prior language and arguably made the vette what it is..

    True they were all long hood Fe cars. So its possible that vette is keepign design language now so the (radical) Me car still has continuity with the Fe car.
    However beautiful proportional design can be done at almost any price, especialy if its a limited use sportscar.

    The issues the vtte team is probably facing is Gm comfort requirements, Making a car old farts can get in and out of, ability to carry golf clubs, and the requirement of multuple teams and engineers who all want their say.

    By contrast the italians mostly design truly stuning cars because they are the coherant vision of a tight group headed by a single individual. Also while GM has little clue as to proprtions or harmony of design, the Italians and french are masters at it.

    Course the Italians dotn always get it right. The YTr could have been designed in detroit, and the F12 was nowhere near ad good as the C7.

    What made the C2 and C3 so different form eachotehr and so origional and stuning to look at is Bill Mitchell who had broad powers in Gm design and didnt have to answer to comitees of boobs. Mitchell even did the C2 camaro, which si also a great design and was not an expesive car. Of course poor old Zora rarely got the equipment in the car he needed to make it really a contender, whereas now suspension and powerplants are great.

    Still we have truly reached and surpassed the point of irrelevant performance numbers, thats why a Gs for road or track is a better proposition than a z06 for most. That means styling, build feedback etc are just as if not more important than raw numbers, not least because the majority of vettes sold are not the most powerful ones. Spectacular as a Zr1 is, its a very limited appreciation car, this will be the same with the 150K 1000 hp C8. So a stuning looking C8 Gs is propbably the sweetspot, yet if it doesent look great or have other virtues, well it will be what ti is.

    The C5 camaro was a knockout, so Gm can fall into good design sometimes. But then look what they did with the camaro after that.
     
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    HERE is the problem.

    Chevy itself compares it to those brands. When they had the 3LT interior in the C7, they said it was their best ever and comparable to European brands. I can tell you -- you would say that only if you were blind.

    I completely agree with you. A Corvette should not cost an arm and a leg and should not be a carbon copy of a Ferrari. Its meat and potatoes and for a lot of people, that's all they want or can afford. Nothing wrong with that.

    If Chevy has done one thing really well its they have always given great value for money with the Vette. Its easy to make a $300,000 sports car. Its really tough to make a good $80,000 sports car.

    To me one of the best things about Vettes is that owners mod them. Ferrari and Lambo people rarely do it but Corvette people can't wait to put on their own touch or increase in performance.

    That's a good thing.
     
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  4. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    ...and...you want your opinions to be taken seriously?
    Just stop already.
     
  5. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    The f12 was not a looker, melted soap best decribes it. Just because ferrari designed it does not mean it looks great. Theres a reason it was redesigned.
    The 488 although a derivation is nowhere near the design the 458 was, and neow we see the F8 which came quickly for a reason.
    While the C7 may not be origional in that it copies a lot of others design elements, its by far a more appealing and cohesive design than the F12, and more agressive/sportscar than the F12.
    The TDF advanced things a lot, to the extent little plastic add ons make for a ferrari, but no one is lamenting the passing of the F12 the way we do for example the 458.

    I am always reminded these are not our chilldren, theyre mere cars. Fan's of one marque or another get offended if you critique that marque, frankly its just honesty. All cars have faults.
    If you want a really not great modern ferrari look no furthr than the 599, not a great design and drives like a truck in that you sit up high and it does not really want to turn/rotate. A friend has one, and I respect his design ethos, so things are also in the eye of the beholder. Although some designs nearly everybody thinks are great. Dynamicaly the F12 was vast dynamic improvement on the 599, the styling though lacks, I could be kind and call it too bland, and maybe that was the intention, theres a reason they redesinged it to be more agressive and more classicaly beautiful in the 812.

    My larger point, whether its an F12 or 812, the performance difference is pretty much irrelevant for a road car, more paper performance may be needed to sell a new model, but relaisticaly we ahve reached aperformnce threshold where other aspects will be more important now, because the numbers are somewhta of a blur. So whether its a vette or a ferrari, dynamics and styling are increasingly points of differentiation and desire. We saw te same thing in the motorcyle world 15 years ago, when all performance marques acheived a beyond normal human level of performance for road and arguably track.

    Ferrari to my eyes took styling in house and has struggled for a language, the F12 and 488 are not high water marks, and maybe they were trying to appeal to China or were transitional shapes. The 812 is better resolved and the F8 by pictures may be the start of a new language. Just my little opinion.

    My perfect car today might be a 720 tub with F8 styling and a F8 motor. The Mcakren Imo is just ugly up front, no matter how apealing the rest is, thats unpardonable in an exotic no matter how functional it is. To the extent Malcaren can get away with it so can the vette, but why.
     
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  6. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    The F12 was by PF. It was elegant subtle and voluptuous. The 812 is a visual disaster. Cluttered and not cohesive. Lines for the sake of lines. It’s what the next Viper should have looked like.
     
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  7. fedcoin

    fedcoin Formula Junior
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    I found a 1990 ZR-1 with only 18,000 miles for sale at Jeff Gordon Chevrolet in Wilmington, NC
    The car may or may not be actually at Rick Hendrick dealership in Charlotte. The salespeople at Jeff Gordon stopped calling me when I told them I simply want to know where the car is at. Remember these ZR-1's were selling for 100K in 1990. This one appears to be in mint condition Asking price $20,000
    aka KING OF THE HILL

    https://www.jeffgordonchevy.com/VehicleDetails/used-1990-Chevrolet-Corvette--Buford-GA/3404610433
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  8. fedcoin

    fedcoin Formula Junior
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    anunakki and crinoid like this.
  9. Eric R

    Eric R F1 Veteran
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    Finally this thread had totally derailed and only took 93 pages for it to happen.
     
  10. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    I can see your point, TDF would have made a great viper, tha flaw in the viper Imo was its powerplant..
    I dont see a f12 as voluptuous. The lines look 80's melted bar of soap to me. 458 was a masterpiece.
    Some people like some designs not others, but very few these days are near universaly praised.. The 2ks are an era started by bangle of polarized design, love or dislike, its imo a cheap way out..
    Very few new designs are near universaly loved. 458 and the prior aston v8 vantage are two near universaly liked/loved designs.
    We have t go back to the 308 at ferrari for the same.(yes a 355 is nice, but bland from front, and a 456 beautiful but derivative almost retro.)
    The F12 was by PF heavily directed and overseen by the "in house talent at ferrari" much as a diablo was a Ghadini design overseen by Chryco. The 488 is a derivation of the 458(pF) but done in house by ferrari, you cant compare the two. Pure undiluted PF had its mises too, but many knockouts.

    In any event I dont doubt for one second the vette team has all the necessaary talent and ability, but their masters seldom let them shine to the fullest. Seems like at Gm its a battle by the talented to let them do their thing, some battles won and some lost. So they prioritze which battles are most important to win. By way of example at caddillac you get cars with truly great dynamics(battle won), but also cue(because thats a different team) and insipid styling with better but not great interiors. The we waited 5 years for the right powerplant(batwing).

    Can you imagine what a mitchell/zora team at GM would do today. In all fairness I have no doubt that the powerplants on the new vettes will be knockouts. Its the other details that cause pause for concern, and Gm is replete with getting those things wrong. I'll give Gm credit where its due though. It takes a lot of courage to change an icon like the vette, going from Fe to Me. Hopefully the me is a sucess, and they make both a Fe and a ME allowing each to better serve their respective segments. A camel is a horse deigned by a comitee.
     
  11. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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  12. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    built by Mercury Marine???
     
  13. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Yes, designed by or with lotus when Gm owned the place, built in Sillwater Oklahoma by mercury because they had the aluminum casting tech. A truly exotic motro that sounds as good as any detroit iron, yet when reved out has the eottic euro sound. Wind one out and like all great exotic it just keeps on a comming harder and harder. We can only hope the new batwing derivation in the C8 is this great(itl be more powerful for sure)

    With acam change and some intake opening these motors are 500 hp all day long. Power over a wide rev range unlike a SBC or even the epriod callaeway TT v8 which had more pwer but could never satidty in the same way because it was narrower pwer over more limited revs and no top end surge or scream.

    I know these cars well, had aZR1 back in the day, living in South Africa where there were big open roads, and fastest I have ever been in a car was 186 in said vette. The interior was crap, the driveline was not built with sustained speed in mind,(over 150 for 45 mins boild the tranny) and the whole car was a twisty noodle, reallya loose collection of parts traveling in the same direction. But its was it was aero stable at speed in a way the countach simply was not or even the BBi, basicaly way more stable and superior at speed 150+ than either of the Italians, and way quicker than a period 928, but unilke a euro car ite nevr felt all of apiece or had the precision of feel. As always with vette they did a lot with what they had.
     
  14. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Very interesting! As I recall the King of the Hill was introduced in France back in 1989.
     
  15. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Back when people decried 375 and later 400hp as too much to put in civillian hands off the showroom floor.
    Course it was also before nannies.

    The 90 model year Zr1 sold in decent numbers with a lot getting put away, each year thereafter sales dropped, I dont even think they sold 500 in the final year. Course on paper the regular vette got closer each year and was half the price.

    The next highwater mark vette for me is the C6 Zo6, appreciably lighter than standard vette and once crcaker of an engine, they pulled ll the stops including the balsa floor. In period it could be mentioned int he same breath as a Gt3.
     
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  16. Eric R

    Eric R F1 Veteran
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    Looks like we have gone from ME talk to 90's talk. I owned two of these C4 ZR1's and for the life of me have never seen anyone take a stock on over 180mph. So was the 186 going down hill or in kM? Maybe we should start a new thread for this?
     
  17. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    True these cars get up to 150 pretty quuickly and speed comes on slower after that
    Depends where you live. In south africa I could rely on 10 miles of open road. Also my car had the butterflies removed from the intake the runner siamesed and new intake cams.

    I would say weekly I was exceeding 150mph for stretches, the car was stable and fine with it, no drama at all, it was good at speed through sweeping corners(140+) in way the contemprary Italians were not.. One interesting thing around 150 or so the rear hatch seal would loose its seal and there would be a bang as the air neutralised with outside pressure, accompanied by a lot or roar. You could look in the rerview mirror at speed and see that hatch jiggling around. On one had the car was aero stable and good at speed, on the other it was still a vette all loosey goosey.

    Lots of adeventures int hat car.

    Anoter car stable at speed on the open road was a jaguar XJS.

    Sadly in USA we dont get open road speed, maybe a quick blast up to speed 150 and then back down. Very different enviroment.
     
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  18. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    ...See, I think the TDF was perfect as is because it still looks Italian. My point with the 812 doesn't look Italian, it looks american. In regards to the Viper, c'mon man that engine was cool. Perhaps dated now but at the time... I still want the most recent ACR!!!

    The regular F12 in 2D may seem underwhelming, although I don't share this opinion, in person it is quite voluptuous subtle however effective and obvious in a way that doesn't show up in pictures. The only part that bugs me only slightly is too much black plastic in front.

    I do feel the 458 is perhaps as close to perfection as a car design may get.

    PF as a design house is subject to it's clients. Clients can ruin a project quite easily.
     
  19. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Gotta say in those better resolved pics, its really not bad, pretty interesting.
    Stealthfighter mates with 360 ferrari. I still like the side intakes, I think they're exagerated in these pics, production maybe a bit more toned down, but the scoops are like Jet intakes on the F35, a quintessentialy American design, in a good way..
     
  20. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    To me the TDF looked really clever, and the agression added somethign the F12 just lacked. I maybe spent 30 mins moving from front to rear, following the intelligence with which the airflow was managed. All those little creases and winglets, you could literaly see how the air flowed. It was also plasticky, but that material allowed those shapes.

    Maybe I need to pay more attention to the f12, take in the sublety, right now I just dont see what you do .

    Havent seen an 812 in the flesh, and for sure pictures dont convey, but at the very least they look interesting.

    The rest we agree completly.
     
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  21. FerrariF430boy

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  22. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    I will say the 812 does look better in person, still it’s a mis to my eye. I agree the TDF is the best of the three.
     
  23. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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