91 Tr for sale some info/opinions | FerrariChat

91 Tr for sale some info/opinions

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by yzrider, Apr 25, 2019.

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  1. yzrider

    yzrider Rookie

    Mar 18, 2009
    9
    Hey guys! Long time lurker not much posting over the years. Found a 91 tr for sale. Yellow on black. Momo steering wheel. Looks stock other than that.

    25k miles. Asked about service records, original manuals etc and he said he doesn't have any sadly but is priced accordingly.

    Ill be completely transparent here im planning to buy and sell in a few years. Im betting its an investment because the tr values do seem to be on a continuing upswing. Regardless of that it is a dream car, taking it to a few events over the years will be an amazing experience and worth the price of admission alone.

    Some of my questions are will the no service records haunt me? Will having a new recent service mostly supercede not having previous ones? Im planning to budget about 7-12k for it.

    Am mechanically inclined and am going to keep doing research before looking at it.

    Thanks for any info and tips!

    In good shape and 25k miles without service records any input on where i should be at price wise to get a feel for how to negotiate with him?
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Investment quality suggests a great car without all those questions. Cars in the lower part of the market because of color, lack of books, records etc stay there.

    Yellow is not a color I'd choose on a TR for your purpose. It has never been popular.

    Further buying any of these as an investment isn't generally a good idea. There are a lot of good and safe investment vehicles, cars are not one.

    I have a TR the original owner paid $300,000 for as an investment. We got it from him 9 years later for about 25% of that.
     
  3. yzrider

    yzrider Rookie

    Mar 18, 2009
    9

    As values increase the lower part of the market does too. I dont expect to go from the lower part suddenly to the concourse 550 miles never been driven in 3rd gear top of the market. But if the bottom of the market now is lets say 90 and the bottom is 120 in several years thats realistic id think, no?
     
  4. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2017
    1,101
    Allentown, PA
    Full Name:
    Tim
    If you're planning on buying and selling then hope that the price stays the same and be ready to lose money. IMO cars are not investments and even as investments they suck when they do increase. Even if the market does well for TR's, you won't realize your cost of ownership back (work done, etc). If you just want to enjoy the TR for a few years then buy what you can afford. But be careful you don't buy a basket case.

    Throwing in $10-20k after purchase is pretty reasonable when the history is a mystery. I don't think anyone here is going to tell you that you are going to be safe or look forward to a reward. None of us have crystal balls :)

    All this said, yellow is the worst for resale. Find a red one.
     
  5. blkdiablo33

    blkdiablo33 F1 Rookie

    Jul 12, 2004
    4,349
    find a white one ha ha best for resale
     
    PineChris likes this.
  6. yzrider

    yzrider Rookie

    Mar 18, 2009
    9
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    #7 Rifledriver, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
    No such thing on a 28 year old Ferrari. They never have no issues unless Ray Charles did the inspection. As few pictures as there are I can see issues.

    It is a matter of how long the list is, not if there is a list.

    It has the wrong steering wheel. No mention if an expensive original is in the picture. It is filthy under the hood, the hood foam is gone and the hood struts are on upside down.

    All indications of one or more of the following. Owner doesn't care about the car, he's taking it to people for service who don't know the cars. He didn't care enough to prepare it in any way to make a great impression to sell. None of it speaks well.

    Car has no issues? I no longer do PPI's but when I did cars like than one had multiple pages.
     
  8. yzrider

    yzrider Rookie

    Mar 18, 2009
    9
    Any actual input would be appreciated.
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall

    You are getting a lot of actual input but you are ignoring it. As far as the car itself you need to do a lot better than 3 bad pictures but I get the feeling what we say will matter little.


    You really want this car. Buy it. A year or two from now you will be just one more person who hates Ferrari. I have spent over 40 years trying to keep that from happening but long ago I realized there is no way I can save everyone.
     
  10. MOSS

    MOSS Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2004
    1,619
    You might do okay at 70-75. Be very cautious. Rifledriver is very straight forward and knows his stuff very well.
     
  11. yzrider

    yzrider Rookie

    Mar 18, 2009
    9


    What ive gotten so far is yellow is the worst color for value - noted. 10-20k is a realistic figure for a TR with an unknown history - noted and i wasnt far off there.

    I do appreciate that.
     
  12. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2017
    1,101
    Allentown, PA
    Full Name:
    Tim
    If you want us to throw a number out I’ll bite, $75k. Maybe even $70k.

    Start at $100k. To me yellow is -$10k easy. $15k for major required and to fix some of the other stuff. The rest is debited for not having records.

    I’m a believer of the $100k number for a 25k mile TR in excellent shape, even $105-110.
     
  13. yzrider

    yzrider Rookie

    Mar 18, 2009
    9

    That's great info there. Maybe i missed this, or you edited and added more info after i read it originally.


    Agreed wholeheartedly that the owner did nothing to prepare it for sale. I run into this all the time and thats many times where the good deals are to be found. Diamond in the rough type finds. Many are too lazy to push the cars out into the sun and too dense to move the trash cans away from the picture..

    Pick it apart as much as possible helps me learn and im going to continue researching.

    Also because im new on the forum doesnt mean i am new to Ferrari. My dads had a 60s Ferrari since i was born and have grown up around all kinds of wild and quirky cars.

    This is one im considering taking a stab at myself but may very well pass.

    The estimate of 70-75 helps me get my footing.
     
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Ferraris and especially Testarossas have a reputation of biting their owners. And when they bite it can be very bad. There is nothing we can do and nothing we can test or check to prevent that. The best we can do is limit ourselves to cars that have been well cared for and serviced by knowledgeable people. That car has none of those hallmarks and there is a very real possibility someone is going to have to get used to writing five figure checks.

    You are here applying Chevy logic where it doesn't belong.

    I have an F40 here whose owner did the same thing. In the year and a half or 2 years he's owned it it's been here more than it has been at his place and we are going to be into six figures very soon. Would have been a lot better off if he spent the extra six figures buying the best one out there. And you know what? When he gets tired of this he'll have to give it away. They will ask me and I'll give it a thumbs down.
     
    Darkhorse575, MOSS and Shamile like this.
  15. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,625
    Dubai / Bologna
    Um... so, once you have fixed everything he will want to get rid of his F40? Cheap?

    Maybe I should get your number.
     
  16. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Wow...what great advice here!

    OP, I don't know if you know rifledriver, but by this point, he's given up and would say go do what you want.

    It seems you're trying to self justify this purchase. Maybe it's super cheap and you can get in for a little amount.

    But, when it's the small little inexpensive things done wrong....buyer beware. A Testarossa is a great car....but not an inexpensive car. I have had my 91 for 18 years and have put 69,700 miles on it as a daily driver. It's a great fun car to drive but a questionable investment.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
    turbo-joe likes this.
  17. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,887
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    Figure out what it's worth for you to buy it, then make an offer.
    TR's have to be a love affair, or you're going to be underwhelmed.

    It sounds like you want a fling. So buy a working red one, have fun, put a few miles on it, tell people you own a testarossa, sell it in a few years. Many folks on here have done that. It probably will cost you 1500-2000 dollars a year of maintenance.
     
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  18. Zeff

    Zeff Formula Junior

    Oct 8, 2018
    678
    Cupertino, Ca
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    This is not the type of car that you just gamble on regarding condition and maintenance unless you could care less about dropping a lot of cash. Your best bet will be to find one with a proper service history and one that is cared for. You will also have a very difficult time selling this car in this or similar condition. Unless he’s giving it away I wouldn’t take the risk. This looks like an owner who doesn’t like spending any money on his prize possessions and that’s the worst kind of person to buy from. Cheap or being cheap is rarely good and good is rarely cheap!! Remember that!
     
    Shamile likes this.
  19. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
    1,829
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Christian
    Ask what he wants for the car, then get a PPI including a full engine out service. Then you have a fresh starting point. Its hard to say what a TR is worth without service records. And yes, yellow is not the most favorable color for resale.
     
    Shamile likes this.
  20. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    Once you figure out what the seller needs for the car, ask for a clear disclosure of all known faults.

    Get a PPI and an estimate for any needed repairs that are NOT included in the seller’s disclosure statement.

    Renegotiate based on the ‘new’ faults that the PPI uncovers. At this point, both seller and buyer have an investment in the car.

    If the car is sound... be reasonable. These cars are 30 years old. The PPI is not a baseball bat to beat down the seller. ANY PPI on ANY car will find faults.

    If big problems... WALK.
     
    Shamile likes this.
  21. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 9, 2017
    1,329
    Manhattan Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    John
    I purchased a 1986 TR in October 2017. This group is tremendously helpful and they are giving you very good advise. I sold the TR in July 2018. Let me give you my real world experience (which echos what everyone has said above).
    • Purchased my TR at Barrett Jackson auction for $80k ($88k with buyers premium). At the time, I felt it was an ok price given where TRs were trading at before
    • Before bidding, I gave myself a "budget" of $20k to sort out any issues since I had no PPI and service records
    • Upon possession of the car, I sent it in for an immediate engine out major service. While the engine was out, we found other issues around the exhaust, ECU, wiring harness, electrical, brakes, etc. Anyways the final bill was around $25k
    • A couple months after my major, the fuse box (known problem) gave way. That was over a thousand dollars to fix
    • My TR had a similar steering wheel as the one you pictured. If you want an OEM original, budget at least $2.5k+ for one (if you can find it). It took me several months and I ended up paying $3k for one
    • I don't see pictures of the upper dash, but the leather starts shrinking and the dash pod will start warping. It cost me over $3k to purchase a new pod and correct all the stretching leather.
    • Know that parts are becoming harder to find, and starting to get really expensive. In addition to the above, I probably spent $5k+ on other miscellaneous items
    • I am super anal and wanted the car back to original (which most of the market wants). As such, I probably spent more than I should/could have
    • In the back of my mind, I always feared about the differential (another known problem). After spending what I spent on repairs, and knowing about the looming differential, I finally decided to move on to another Ferrari
    Back in Q2/Q3 of 2018, this is what I saw and experienced with the TR market when I sold mine:
    • Most trade in values were around $60k-$65k
    • The highest offer I got on the car (non trade in) was $78k. (Remember that I already had done a major on the car with all receipts)
    • I finally traded the TR in for $70k at a Ferrari dealership and picked up a 599
    So after all this, you can see and do the math from above. I don't regret buying and fixing/repairing the TR, however I don't need to experience it again :). I met a lot of great guys on the TR section while fixing up the car. Also the TR was fun to drive and gets more attention than my F430 and 599. Even if you are handy (which I am moderately handy), double your repair budget to be safe. Good luck on the search. My TR was red and yellow is what everyone has said above.
     
    VColin, V4NG0, blkdiablo33 and 2 others like this.
  22. MOSS

    MOSS Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2004
    1,619
    I think I have at least two original steering wheels for TR's if anyone is looking.
     
  23. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,887
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
    are they in good shape?
     
  24. MOSS

    MOSS Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2004
    1,619
    Very nice I believe.
     

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