"never use the choke" ??? | FerrariChat

"never use the choke" ???

Discussion in '308/328' started by rjd2, Apr 18, 2019.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. rjd2

    rjd2 Karting

    Jul 28, 2016
    125
    Question regarding a carb'ed 308-I was told by the owner of one to "never use the choke", as using it can throw them out of tune. I wanted to ask, is there a truth to this in a general sense, or would this have been specific to his particular car? Do you carb 308 owners have issues using the choke? I've never heard of this phenomenon on a carb'ed car. Thanks for the info.
     
  2. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 28, 2012
    1,753
    Shreveport, LA
    To paraphrase, That sounds "boooooogus"
     
  3. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jun 2, 2004
    2,627
    Essex, UK
    Full Name:
    Andy M
    I am no expert but...

    I have just about finished rebuilding my carbs and the choke mechanism is a completely separate/isolated piece on the front of the carb. So unless the lever/mechanism gets stuck, I can't see anyway that it could 'throw them out of tune'. But the general advice has always been to simply stab the accelerator a few times and then turn the key - i.e. don't use the choke. Terry Hoyle stated this and he knows a thing or two about Ferrari engines.

    The only explanation I have ever heard, is that once upon a time, an owner opened the choke right up and left the car to warm up. He got distracted and was away from the car for longer than he anticipated. On return to his car the engine was racing at several thousand RPM... What truth there is in this I don't know.
     
  4. 308ROB

    308ROB Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 14, 2004
    882
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Rob
    We never have a issue with the choke because we never use the choke.lol
    When starting the car, let the fuelpump turn for a minit and then tap twice on the trottelpedal and start the engine.
    So dont use the choke "maybe you will overflow the the carbs". I have my car for over 15 year and I have never used the choke.
    So nothing wrong with your car al 308 carb. cars will do this.
    Rob,
     
    are-jay-bee, 53ford and Martin308GTB like this.
  5. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,212
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    +1
     
    are-jay-bee likes this.
  6. Portofino

    Portofino Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2011
    564
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Liguria ( Italy )
    Full Name:
    Portofino
    208 ,s with the 34 DCNF carbs require zero throttle involvement and full choke .
    Usually a few seconds after running the fuel pump for a cold start .
    Then progressively release the choke to 1/2 then off during the first 2/3 mins after setting off .

    If you touch the throttle ( temping to prod it during cranking ) when attempting a cold start it just knackers the whole thing up and I think floods it .
    It may fire then hesitate then cut out , takes a few go to clear the “flood “

    Hot and warm start chokes not necessary.

    I,ve tried the 308 method ( sans choke + couple of prods and catch it ) but it does not work at all with the 208 , zilch just turns over but zero ignition/ fire .

    When I bought the car at Auction there was a A4 sized sign “ needs full choke to start “ on the passenger seat .

    Nice to hear of any other 208 starting techniques .
     
  7. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Formula Junior

    Jun 5, 2016
    250
    Ireland
    Never used it because it never worked until now and I never needed it. Never intend to use it now it works.
    Makes absolutely no sense to me how it could throw it out of tune although lack of use could cause it to stick perhaps.

    Sent from my EML-L29 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  8. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,517
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    If you live in a warm climate place, you really don’t need to use the choke. Not a Ferrari but on my Lancia Scorpion, I have dual 42 DCNF FOR 35 years and never once I’ve use the choke and I’m here in Bay Area and SoCal.
     
  9. Pero

    Pero Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2011
    820
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Peter R
    I have a 208 and use the "308" method. No choke, no problem.
    Peter
     
  10. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,212
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    I don't even need it at 30F. Now I have an in-house garage where the temperatures rarely go below 50F, even in the coldest winters and without heating over several weeks, when there's nothing to do on the cars.
    But in former times I had a garage, where it could go to 30F or below. From time to time I drove my car on dry winter days. No choke anyway.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
    miketuason and 308ROB like this.
  11. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2003
    37,253
    PNW
    Full Name:
    John
    The problem with the chokes is not that they will put the carbs out of tune, but they tend to stick and don't always fully reset. The procedure above, 2-3 light pumps of the pedal and no choke was taught to me by my Italian mechanic!
     
  12. SJP 5

    SJP 5 Karting

    Jun 7, 2015
    93
    Agree with 308ROB, that is exactly the procedure I was told by my 1977 308's previous owner and have been following the advice for the past 18 years without any problems.
     
  13. 53ford

    53ford Karting

    Nov 13, 2009
    112
    Ditto...my choke isn't even connected.
     
    MFlanagan likes this.
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #14 Steve Magnusson, Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
    True, "out of tune" isn't really the right description. As Jdubbya posted, the "problem" is that the choke spools that are positively lifted by pulling the choke cable are not positively returned to the closed position when the choke lever cable is moved back. They rely on an internal coil spring to push them closed -- so if one starts to get a bit galled, it can still easily be pulled open, but it won't close, and a metal spool moving in a metal bore washed clean by a solvent (gasoline) isn't a great situation. If the spool gets stuck in its bore so it doesn't return to the closed position = a lot of extra fuel gets dumped into that cylinder. It's a much more serious problem/risk on a US cat-equipped carbed 308 as this can result in a carbeque.
     
    lm2504me and Andrew McCrae like this.
  15. Portofino

    Portofino Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2011
    564
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Liguria ( Italy )
    Full Name:
    Portofino
    Well guys I tried the “ 308 method “ described above .
    Only gave two pumps of the peddle after about 10 secs of ignition only time to prime .
    It fired ran for a few seconds felt like its was about to stop so I tried to catch it with the peddle and it died .

    I then bottled it and applied full choke ( ambient temp approx 22 degrees C ) it burst into life and settled to a normal fast idle 2000 rpm .
    I quickly revved it up and after about 30 secs turned the choke fully off and it settled into normal idle about 1100 rpm .

    I,ll persevere.
     
  16. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    1,938
    Berks, UK
    Full Name:
    francis newman
    I was told to never use the choke. I did try once and it made no difference. Later I discovered it was disconnected!

    The run the fuel pump for 10 secs and two stabs on the throttle always works fine for me if the car has been recently used. However, if the car hasn't been started for a couple of months let the fuel pump run for a minute before the two stabs. When the engine "catches" it sometimes needs a little bit of gentle prodding on the pedal to ensure it keeps going.
     
  17. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    One other point on the "308 method" is that you'd really need to also disable the cold start mechanism (by backing out the adjustment screw until it doesn't touch the rotating cam in the cold position); otherwise, you can't "peddle" it enough to add sufficient enrichment without getting to an excessive RPM (i.e., squirting the peddle to add enrichment also adds the extra air that the cold start mechanism would be adding -- getting an average engine speed of about 2K RPM).
     
  18. Portofino

    Portofino Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2011
    564
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Liguria ( Italy )
    Full Name:
    Portofino
    Makes sense .
    I tried again , 10 secs or so on ignition .The. 3 care fuel slow ish pumps on the peddle .Its burst into life for about 3 secs and started to stutter and would not “ catch “

    However full choke it bursts into life and settles high idle i immediately after say 20 secs closed the choke and it blipped easy on the peddle .

    As said there was a A 4 piece of paper on the passenger seat saying “ choke to start “
    When I went to pick up the car the experienced Ferrari guy ( they sold a few 308 s as well that day ) tried the trad “ 308 “ method in fact he attempted to demonstrate and the same thing happened , so he used the choke after 2 goes .

    It runs perfectly fine strong throughout the Rev range etc etc .
    Carbs had £1300 spending on them at a W London authorised Ferrari agent in 2016 , usual stuff new gaskets and setting up etc after the previous owner reported poor running .
    This was after new HT leads / points / plugs btw .

    I,am relaxed about it just curious.

    I have had the airbox off over the winter as part of a fettling process and lubed all the linkages and saw the choke return when off , but of course I can’t see inside the carbs but externally all moves freely.
     
  19. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2012
    6,270
    Kahuku / Cottonwood / Prescott
    Full Name:
    Will
    Never used the choke ever on any of my 308s, but...I do get a yellow choke light in my panel after the car warms up a bit and it never goes out until the next time I start the car...never touching the choke lever. Car runs perfectly at all times. Loose wire?
     
  20. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,212
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    If its not the wire, which touches ground somewhere, it's probably an oversenstive contact on the choke lever. If so, it's easily adjustable by a bit of bending, that you won't get bothered by the light any more. Was the same on mine. A bit of fiddling with the lever contact cured it.

    Best Regards
    Martin
     
  21. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2012
    6,270
    Kahuku / Cottonwood / Prescott
    Full Name:
    Will
    Under the panel...underside of choke lever?

    Thanks again, Martin!
     
  22. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,212
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    Yes. You can of course also disconnect the wire completely. But if your choke is connected with the carbs you will never get a choke warning light again. Not even when you move the lever accidentally.

    Best
    Martin
     
  23. dflett

    dflett Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2005
    1,603
    NY
    Full Name:
    David
    And this is why that lever and mechanism corrodes so badly compared to the levers for the heating... it is energized. I have some photos somewhere of the corrosion - I'll try to dig them out.
     
    Hannibal308 and Martin308GTB like this.
  24. PreppyRockrChick

    Jan 22, 2018
    18
    WNY
    Full Name:
    Jules
    My Dad is a Ferrari expert and mechanic. He gave me a carbed 1978 308 and said NEVER USE THE CHOKE because you can foul the carbs.
     
  25. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2008
    9,182
    He probably meant the plugs not carbs
     
    Albert-LP likes this.

Share This Page