FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN CHINESE GRAND PRIX 2019: RACE1000 ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄ | Page 22 | FerrariChat

FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN CHINESE GRAND PRIX 2019: RACE1000 ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄

Discussion in 'F1' started by SPEEDCORE, Apr 13, 2019.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #526 william, Apr 15, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
    It seems that once more Ferrari has been carried away with euphoria after the pre-season tests at Barcelona.

    They left with the impression that they had a winner, and the last 3 races brought them back to reality.

    "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"* as say the French.

    * What goes around, comes around.
     
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  2. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    I'm not denying that, it's a fact, and that came as a result of another bad call from ferrari, still it's also true that without the pits interference, Charles would have finished ahead.
    SEb was perfect this weekend, he did a nice start, was unlucky being caught behind Bottas, but was cool and gave Charles lots of space (unlike in australia..wich by the way was the reason why Charles was behind him in the first place), so no bashing Senb from me, he did his job, what i don't accept is Ferrari screwing the other car race for no reason.
     
  3. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Vettel got past and couldn't get ahead. He tried hard enough to lock up his brakes. Nothing. It was a wasted move in and of itself, but then they tried in vain to get Charles to help Vettel again with VB to no result. And in so doing, they left Leclerc out on old tires and cost him fourth. That is as economic a formulation of the bare facts as I could come up with spur of the moment. Pointing out the facts isn't stirring up problems. And I'm sure I'm more calm about it than the Italian fans are. :)
     
  4. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    And many people seem to forget that Vettel cruised to his titles with almost no competition. This is the same Vettel that 100% threw away a WDC last year and handed it to Ham in 2017. He's going to do it again this year. And Ferrari's team orders will gift MV #3 in the WDC.
     
  5. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
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    Not sure what races you've been watching...at China Leclerc was ahead of Seb until he was asked to SLOW DOWN and let him pass because Seb said "I could go faster". Up until that point in the race, Leclerc was only 3ish sec away from Bottas, when the lead was changed Seb did far worse than Leclerc and the gap to Bottas grew to 7s in just a few laps!!!

    In Australia, Leclerc was instructed to hold station and NOT to pass. In Bahrain he was also instructed NOT to pass but thankfully he did and he showed he had 2x more pace than Seb...

    3 separate races, 3 sets of team orders biased towards supporting an overrated driver who had less WDC points and no race pace just for the sake of...mind boggling to me...
     
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  6. scudF1

    scudF1 F1 Rookie
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    Vettel thought that he was faster than Leclerc but in reality he wasn't. I think they both had the same pace. What ruined Leclerc's race was 1) the start, 2) team orders to let Vettel pass him and 3) another wrong team order strategy to let him out longer than they should have with old tires.
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You tell him !!!
     
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  8. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Leclerc HIMSELF said that at the time of passing it looked that Seb was faster, I do not know what the problem is. Leclerc said as well that the tires of Seb went as he was driving behind him, so obviously they should have changed position even before. Furthermore Charles only was in front of Seb not because he was faster but because Seb was blocked by Bottas at the start.

    Bahrain: nobody ever questioned that Charles was faster that day...

    Australia: Seb was pulling away from Charles and was faster until Ferrari screwed him over with the strategy (note: that happens to Seb as well, not only to poor Charles!!!). Then apparently Sebs engine was turned down to safe it and Charles was told to hold position. So Seb was faster that day and he was slowed down by the team in the second half of the race. If you saw anything different that day I wonder what race you were watching. In case you do not remind: Lewis was brought in the lap after in Australia to avoid an undercut and his race was screwed just as Sebs with this too early stop...
     
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  9. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Cool, so apart from your cool PM you avoid to talk to me but this does not take you from talking about me... what a gentleman :rolleyes:
     
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  10. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    May I ask what was wrong with the start?
     
  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Looks like we have a Vettel worshipper here, who can see nothing wrong in Binotto screwing Leclerc 3 times .
    Everything is justified in his eyes.
    Dear Lord ... we must all be watching different races.
     
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  12. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Oh, worshipper and hater... how simple you make this to yourself in life... :rolleyes:
    Leclerc was not screwed in Australia and obviously apart from his engine trouble he was not screwed in Bahrain either....He asked to overtake and they told him to wait two laps (which he didn´t) and yesterday Seb asked and the waited for two laps as well until calling Charles, but as bashing Seb is en vogue here nobody cares about these details, it is all poor Charles who is lightyears ahead and just because of evil Binotto he is not leading the WDC :rolleyes:
     
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  13. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    If Ferrari gets their car right, all this Seb vs Leclerc team orders chat will be academic. All four drivers on both teams can get the job done...but the ones behind the wheel of the better car will win. If Mercedes could adjust and catch up after the winter testing, Ferrari should be able to do the same right now. Ferrari's one area of deficit that will be hard to correct is the cultural one. And that's the difference between risotto and racing.
     
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  14. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    Nope, I replayed all of the radio comms @ China, and can confirm Leclerc was told to slow down to let Seb pass. Just prior to that radio message Leclerc was pulling away from Seb but was told to slow down to let Seb pass. Post-race interview Leclerc only confirmed that Seb following behind him could've only done more harm than good on his tires, but hey, how is that Leclerc's problem?

    So, again, why do you think Leclerc should've let Seb pass sooner when Leclerc was already ahead and building a gap from Seb, AND also maintaining a smaller gap to Bottas ahead? Mercedes was too far gone either way, so from a team perspective, how is slowing the lead Ferrari car to let the slower Ferrari car through a good idea? Seb was unequivocally slower in that entire first stint, lap times prove it.

    Seb lost his spot because he had a bad start and went on the outside leaving the door open to ANYONE who had a better start to run up on the inside, not because Bottas blocked him.

    Seb's engine was turned down at Australia? That's news to me, maybe you're confused with the race from last year lol.

     
  15. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Please go back to post 498 and show me where Leclerc was building a GAP??? Within the first 9 laps until Leclerc let Seb pass Seb was within a second, the difference in lap times were marginal (far less than a tenth). So what was wrong trying to have the other driver chasing the Mercedes... Sure, now you all know that it did not work but what was wrong trying???
    Mercedes did the same with Bottas/Lewis in the past, difference is that it did not work out changing back the position again as Max pitted. Sure, it would have been fair to pit Charles before Seb but at that time it would have meant that the undercut of Max would have worked on BOTH Ferrari rather than one. As Charles was 1.5 seconds back in lap 17 the undercut (that almost worked on Vettel) would have certainly worked on Charles, so bringing in Charles first would have brought Max ahead of both Ferrari.
    Seb had a bad start? Obviously his start was faster than the one of Bottas and there was no room on the inside. If he would have went for the inside you guys would have complained again that he was blocking Charles... So obviously whatever Seb does is wrong, be it inside or outside..
    Once he was passed by Max on old tires it was reported that he was not driving on full juice anymore as there was no need for that, Magnussen was more than half a minute behind...[/QUOTE]
     
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    LOL, for the sake of arguing, he will debate to death against the general concensus that Binotto issued several stupid team orders.
     
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  17. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    If you have a problem please feel free to write me another pm starting with "Some of what I will say would get me banned, surely."...
     
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  18. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

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    Maybe, Maybe not.
    What they haven't left is carbon fibre debris on the race track and associated DNF.

    Only if we can find the speed in the car, and the nouse to get one of the cars home first, will the discussion be more relevant.
    At this stage do I care who comes 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the WDC or WCC?
    Not at all!
     
  19. Jean-Pierre Marchand

    Jean-Pierre Marchand Formula Junior
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    Judging by many of these comments, "jumping off the deep end" seems to be the order of the day while bypassing the basic fact that Mercedes, once again, has the faster car. Look . . . Ferrari is Ferrari. The drivers will come and go. I really don't care which driver finishes ahead of the other. The Ferrari CAR has to improve. When you have the fastest car, strategy is no problem.
     
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  20. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    +1
     
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  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    [QUOTE="Jean-Pierre Marchand, post: 146560197, member: 226659"

    When you have the fastest car, strategy is no problem.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not at Ferrari ! They have the tendency to lose focus when they are ahead. They lost several championship that way.

    Ferrari often scores own goals too, like losing the 2018 championship when they were ahead by making repeated mistakes.

    Some will argue that was also the case in 2017. But they never learn their lesson, they prefer to do some culling instead.

    Apart from the Todt-Brawn-Byrne-Schumacher era, the Scuderia has traditionally been a very dysfunctional organisation.

    It was first run by a Machiavelic autocrat, then by a succession of cronies with limited management skills.
     
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  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Seb actually had a really good start but his progress was hampered significantly by the Mercs. He had to get out of it and that's where LEclerc could close in.

    I think so, yes. After Max passed him he started to manage his tyres/save engine. Remember he pitted one of the first of anyone...so really couldn't go on a pointless chase after Max, ruining his tyres, and risking another stop.
     
  23. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Exactly... and I still wait that he shows me "the gap building" he was talking about... But I guess it is easier just to claim something without any facts to back it, and if one asks one is accused riding a dead horse. But just look who liked that post, none of them really cares about facts when it comes to Vettel/Ferrari :rolleyes:
     
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  24. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    He was, but only because he pushed Charles into the dirt at the start and made him lose a position to max, had he been more carefull (or perhaps he simply didn't see him, i believe that) and Charles would be right there with him.
     
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