488 Pista on the Nürburgring: Onboard Video and Feedback | FerrariChat

488 Pista on the Nürburgring: Onboard Video and Feedback

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by rmitchell248, Apr 1, 2019.

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  1. rmitchell248

    rmitchell248 Formula 3

    May 26, 2013
    1,071
    Nürburg
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Hey guys, I've been pretty disappointed in myself that I've not been able to write up more about my experience with the pista so far as Ive just been too busy. These are not all of my thoughts but a quick overview.. I will go into much more detail later on.

    My first impressions of the Pista were that it was the most beautiful car that I own and that still stands.. I use my cars primarily on the Nürburgring so looks are nice but the driving characteristic is the most important.

    I will just say that if you have one coming and you're going to use it on track chances are good that you're going to love it. The car is brutally fast in a straight line and the traction that the car has is one of the best I have driven. You need to turn dsc off to get out of the apex to full potential but once you do that the thing is a rocket. You can see in the video below how it picks up speed. It is quicker from turn to turn than the 720s is and it picks up speeds above 230kmh much much faster. The midrange power and torque pins you in your seat each time you get on the gas and or switch gears.

    The transmission (programming) in the 488 was a big reason I sold mine, I really disliked it... the Pista is different, the pause where your head slams forward during the paust between gear changes has been eliminated and it feels as if its been replaced with the slipping of the clutches when engaging the next gear. The result is an immediate change that magnifies the torque of the engine when upshifting. It is a wonderful thing rowing through the gears of the Pista.

    Often such as in the video below, we are not giving 100% to performance and are out enjoying the car. In this case the characteristics of the drivetrain are perfect. Push the car to 80-90% and it excites you to no end. Did I mention the grip? The car simple rockets forward and that is so cool.

    For the bad.. This is where some may not love it... I still am not that fond of the seating position vs what McLaren are doing, for taller people you will not get a helmet on in this car. Another note is that the DSC is a bit intrusive if you run with it in Race Mode. This issue is mainly while the steering wheel is not straight and you want to apply power. This forces you to turn things off right away. Finally the suspension is a bit soft, the car comes from the factory with quite a bit of ride height, especially in the front and you should not drop it down much as there is a lot of roll and the car squats down heavily in compressions. There are about 4 places on the Nordschleife where I scrape the lip during compressions. When driving the body roll does not kill you that much however you can get into a bit of understeer and I think a little stiffer roll control would help this considerably. The 600LT for example with 225-19 tires on the front has a bit more responsive front end and similar aero.. but a much stiffer suspension and roll control.

    In all the car is very fast, very capable and is a step up vs the speciale hands down in terms of performance. What I can say about the speciale is that it was more playful, loose and a nicer soundtrack. The motor in the Pista is a weapon and to be honest I would take it over the 9k RPM NA motor.. it is that good of an engine.

    The aero on the Pista feels more impressive than the 720s which is saying a lot. The cool thing is that even though we are dealing with nice levels of down force, it still has very strong top end acceleration numbers. The Aero on the Speciale was nearly non existent by comparison and the acceleration, while being quick was nothing to really comment about.

    That is a quick overview and I promise to get more into it when I have some time. Until then here is a little video cruising on the Nürburgring. The car has so much potential, I really am taking it easy in this video due to the amount of traffic and cars holding me up. Its alway important to exercise patience on days like that!!


     
  2. junc

    junc Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 2, 2007
    501
    Chicago/Laguna Beach
    Full Name:
    Jun
    Thank you for your review. Nice to hear from someone who actually tracks the car.

    Glad to hear about the difference in gear changes with the 488. The softening or pause as it approaches redline can be annoying in regular 488s.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    Melvok likes this.
  3. jim g

    jim g Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2003
    887
    Waverly, Pa.
    Full Name:
    Jim Gress
    Awesome, thanks for sharing
     
  4. Ash Patel

    Ash Patel Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2015
    538
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Thank you for your nice write up and agree with above posts--> nice to hear impressions and comparisons with other marques from someone that actually owns and tracks the cars and possibly owned some different brands.

    And to those lucky fews that get's a Pista... I hate you guys ;)

    Going forward one very interesting point will be how the F8 measures up to the Pista --> more or less how much less focused on track and more isolated (less "one with the driver experience") and maybe comfortable it will feel vs Pista)
     
  5. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,734
    Tropical
    Cool video ,thanks. I can see you are not exactly hanging around ,very well driven!

    Raced there in FF1600 many moons ago ...amazing how much of the track one can still remember.
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  6. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2017
    1,142
    Drove the ring for the first time last year during TF and just daydream of the next time I will be back. Thanks for sharing your review and write up!

    Not that lap times matter but you think it’s an under 7 minute car on stock rubber?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. rmitchell248

    rmitchell248 Formula 3

    May 26, 2013
    1,071
    Nürburg
    Full Name:
    Robert
    a couple photos as well
    no doubt in my mind that it will go sub 7 on stock tires. Next time you come be sure to look me up and ill make sure to show you around a bit :)
     
    Melvok, ShineKen, kandi and 2 others like this.
  8. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2012
    14,221
    Arizona
    nice video. That GT3 was hauling ass!
     
    Ash Patel likes this.
  9. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    9,031
    Great write up.

    Was surprised the gt3 was so dominate for as long as it was.
     
  10. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    #10 Shadowfax, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    Great write up and footage....loved it! Pista sounded good too! Nothing quite like a nice cruise on a long country road :D even better with no traffic! You are blessed having the NR on your doorstep!

    PS. Agree with others that the Gt3 held up very well. Makes me wonder how the Pista would have fared if the guy was in a GT2rs..?? Your thoughts appreciated.
     
  11. exoticcardreamer

    exoticcardreamer Formula 3

    Dec 9, 2014
    1,051
    usa
    Full Name:
    doesitmatter
    Not sure what you guys are seeing with the Gt3. He recognized that Robert was faster and tried to let him pass but Robert didn’t take it . Only once he felt that it was safe to pass did he do it .

    Btw ; I think you’d be surprised with how many km’s Robert has driven his own cars at the ring (gt3rs, 675, 488, speciale, 720, 600 Lt). He operates a ring taxi called apex . He’s probably one of the most credible , unbiased opinion that we are going to get .
     
  12. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    #12 Shadowfax, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    From the comments I read no one is questioning Roberts driving skills - the point being made was clear in that the GT3 held up well over a number of situations prior to the chance to overtake being offered and rescinded, as well as after that to the point when Robert felt it safe to pass. It was clear at that stage Pista had superior power and acceleration than the Gt3 on occasion but that didn't change the earlier situations where the 3 was pulling very hard along with the sound of Roberts engine being also given what sounded like full beans and, the Pista was only matching pace with the gt3 indicating the flexibility and power of the Gt3 engine allowed it to match the Pista's pace at certain times.

    This is another reason why I have asked for Roberts thoughts how he felt he would have fared if he were up against the 2rs which has 200 more horses and more airo....or if he has already been up against the 2rs in similar situations. Naturally the skill of the driver is always a key factor..
     
  13. BG23

    BG23 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2015
    437
    Australia
    Great video and write up Robert! I rarely watch these until the end, but yours was compelling.

    Great driving and appreciate you taking the time to share it with the car community. Always enjoy hearing your thoughts and views - it's not often that people as capable as yourself, give their balanced, unemotional and candid opinion of their own car.
     
    sampelligrino and of2worlds like this.
  14. Napoli

    Napoli Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2017
    958
    Full Name:
    NOYB, Ray!
    What’s up with all the vans and SUVs?
     
  15. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    They were just there as a slalom course.
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  16. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    9,031
    Wonderful write up. I too watched till the end. Wish I had the skill and stones to drive like you!

    So are you an Apex Legend?

    Obviously tongue in cheek but I admit I love your company name for good reason.
     
  17. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

    Dec 20, 2011
    3,135
    Nice skills, thanks for sharing.
     
  18. markcs

    markcs Karting

    Oct 23, 2016
    141
    just mobile witches hats
     
  19. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 3, 2012
    3,082
    UK
    I don’t think the GT3 driver would be particularly pleased with how easy the Pista was keeping up given there was a lot of coasting and off-throttle while it was behind the Porsche. Although the GT3 was setting a fast pace, it was a long way off the pace of the Pista, at least from what I could see.
     
  20. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,494
    Wow, that´s what I call driving.
     
  21. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 3, 2012
    3,082
    UK
    Great video btw, really enjoyed that. Cheers
     
  22. kevin1244

    kevin1244 Formula Junior

    Mar 7, 2008
    308
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    KAA
    That's a very competent driving. Congrats on the car.
     
  23. Michaelw488

    Michaelw488 Karting

    Mar 20, 2018
    164
    Full Name:
    Michael W
    WOW that’s awesome, what great and respectful driving, maybe one day I will have the skill & opportunity to take a ride like that!
     
  24. ItalianOne

    ItalianOne Formula Junior

    May 21, 2008
    614
    Mich
    Full Name:
    Kevin R
    Great video
     
  25. rmitchell248

    rmitchell248 Formula 3

    May 26, 2013
    1,071
    Nürburg
    Full Name:
    Robert
    The GT3 was moving along decently but there are a few things to consider. Notice at the beginning of the lap he was no where to be found and I caught him mid lap with a large difference in pace. Once I reached him, I slowed down considerably, you can see that my corner speeds reduced quite a bit and I was accelerating out of the corners a lot slower w him in front. For example the pace slows a lot at 2:50. I will take a small segment and say what would normally be full throttle but in this lap I am coasting behind the Gt3

    In the following segments I am off the throttle where you could and should be full..

    2:56 to 3:00
    3:10-3:14
    3:25-3:29
    3:45-3:52

    With those slower acceleration points you then have less aggressive braking points and ultimately less load on the front end and your corner speeds slow down.
    These lift of segments spread out over 3 or so minutes of the lap add up to a ton of time lost. This however is ok as the beauty of public driving on the Nordschleife is to enjoy the drive and sometimes its more fun to follow someone for a bit than just fly through traffic (which is also rewarding).

    The other HUGE part of driving on the Nordschleife is safety, you will see that coming to Lauda Links at 3:48 I could have easily passed him. However as I go next to him I saw slow the traffic on the right, knowing that I had better braking capability I slowed down to let him back over and make sure he did not have an oh **** moment. It was clear that if I continued the pass, he was going to have stay to the right after the turn which is not as grippy and he would have to slam on the brakes to avoid the traffic that he would have inevitably been right behind at 3:52 under braking had I passed.. So instead I slowed down and let him get back to the left so that he could have good track to brake in and be on the line before the right hander.

    When you have thousands of laps on the ring you do learn some things and ultimately start looking out for the other cars and make sure you can help keep them out of issues as well. The next thing you start to do is read the traffic and make adjustments for things happening far ahead. around 4:20 we are at a section of track that the Pista can hit 270mkh without issue and here in this video I am cruising along at 200 w steady throttle. This is because way in the distance I can see 3 cars that we will reach 15 seconds later. The Porsche will converge w the Mercedes at a tricky left hand curve. You can see at about 4:35 the Porsche reaches the Mercedes and is hard on the brakes. On the other hand I laid back and am I am now only downshifting as I catch them. I saw the scenario unfolding 15 seconds prior to it happening so I was able to lay back and lost no time at all while they sorted each other out and the Porsche worked out how he was getting around the Mercedes. I was then in position to pass the Mercedes on the inside as he was always going to push to the right due to his line entering the turn.

    So in short, the Porsche had a good lap and I lost probably 20 seconds or more over that couple minutes following him. It didn't bother me as Im not out chasing lap times rather just enjoying the drive. If I was being aggressive I could have passed him at 2:58 and been on with my lap. Instead I decided to go for a nice cruise and enjoy the cars. I get more pleasure out of a nice smooth and clean lap vs an aggressive over the top lap.

    I really see driving in traffic as an art, you time your straight line acceleration and braking points to meet the slow traffic at ideal points. Go to the video at 2:05 and see the pass at 2:17, the meeting point of our two cars was not just chance that I passed him on the inside there. I tried to set up the pass as smooth as possible by judging our two speeds and attempting to meet while he was to the right for his left hander into Adenauer Forst.



    Thank you, I love what we do at Apex... sharing the ring with so many really is a treat.

    I think the GT3 driver was happy to have some fun and glad I wasn't all up his bumper and let him do his thing! I doubt anyone in that lap had any stress! Was a pleasure getting to run the Pista Sunday.. had a fantastic time w the car!
     

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