My Testarossa DIY thread | Page 4 | FerrariChat

My Testarossa DIY thread

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by mikael82, May 26, 2015.

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  1. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    you may try to get the invoice from the owner where you get the car from or even get knowledge what independent garage was doing this job and ask them then
     
  2. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
    Yes, but thing is you have to pay those bearings in service, even they do not change them...
    Do you people think around 6000km's and 3-years would brake oem Ferrari tensioner bearings? Or did they not change them att last service?
    Belts did got correct date number on them.

    (I always insist all old parts back with car if I let someone else do service for me)

    I have contacted last service company, but I followed every step of invoise and fixed everything after them;
    -Fuel line to filter was spraying fuel.
    -One nut over shock absorber was hand tight, top of threads.
    -Car had absolutely no handbrake
    -New spark rotors where forced in with pliers.
    -They broke rear bumber, that has split on it now.
    -Left side spark module top of coil was only half connected to loom.
    -No sealant was added to end of oil covers and all corners dropped oil-
    -Left side radiator lower coolant hose clamp was not tighten att all, that resulted 1 meter pool of coolant under car.
    -intake air balance was so bad car did not even idle and I struggle to get car moveing from trafic lights. They "adjusted" injection system by changing fuel filter, that resulted fuel leak.
     
  3. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    #78 turbo-joe, Feb 20, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
    how can you adjust by only changing filter? changing and adjusting - ok. but not adjusting by changing filter. strange

    no, your are sure if it is OEM? it is made by SKF ( see the stamping ), but this company makes those tensioners for F but at F you pay the F price ;)

    I think so when they make noise now, but of course not sure

    you can not put parts on the invoice when you not renewed them

    but nevertheless those tensioners look not so old ( photo from the surface where the belt is running would be good ), but the grease inside is coming out, and that makes me thinking. may be got to hot?
     
  4. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
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    Mikael
    #79 mikael82, Feb 20, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
    Car had it's last inspection in 2010, it was not driven between this and 2015, when I bought it after sevice. (in Europe you mainly have to inspect car every year) Where those tensioner bearings where changed.
    You can feel those have little wear,
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    btw. You do have to pay part even if they are not changed, because not many owner pull engine out of their car and if same service does car every time, they can see how long car was driven after last service and that is 137€ without doing anythind. You can not see them, what you can not see is always matter of trust.
    If sevice know car and owner that only drives under 1000km's each years and service is always done in same place, it is tempting not to change them, they will not be used and no one will notice.
    If those go bad, it is much more job for service, a lot more and owner will pay. How many of owners can tell what that ticking sound is?
    I can not prove anything, if they are change or not, but these bearings did FAIL, started making noise.
     
  5. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    they look not bad and so I think they had been changed at last service
    the little wear could come from not using long time and humidity inside and so a little rust could become this little wear after using again and therefore the grease inside comes out
     
  6. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
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    Mikael
    I drove car constantly, it was undriven before service.
     
  7. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
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    Mikael
    Removed plenums and took great amount of pictures, asuring it goes back in.
    This is European version, there for it has K-Jetronic's.
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    When injection is out, you can see block fair amount debree has been collected during years to top of block.
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    These engines always got some spare parts dropped to top of block, before vacuuming I collected coupe of washers, a nut and best of all; electrical connection seal, that is hard to find.
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    Starter, spark leads, engine electrical harnes, that is quate minimal, intake, exhaust and coolant outlet out.
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  8. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
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    Mikael
  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    this is nearly impossible to find, may be on a broken car at a junk yard. it is a bosch part
     
  10. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
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    Mikael
  11. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
  12. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
  13. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    869
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    Mikael
    But this is my question;
    Engine smoked a lot when starting cold, little bit when runing cold, but I did not add much more oil during last four years, once if I recal correct.
    What do you people think is issue with oil rings or valve guide seals?

    This side has more oil in cylinders
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    This cylinder got most, cylinders themself look and feel good as all cam parts and so-on.
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  14. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Aug 29, 2008
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    Could be the valve seals. Usually smoke on start up. When trailing throttle down long hill and step on gas and puff of blue smoke ,could be rings!
     
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  15. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Jan 21, 2004
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    Guido
    I think the opening of the trust washers on the pistons are placed incorrectly.

    Guido
     
  16. MOSS

    MOSS Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2004
    1,619
    Boxer style engines like the Porshe can smoke a little on start up when newer and does not mean there is necessarily a problem. A V style engine can drain oil off the pistons and rings back in the sump after you turn them off but the boxer style cannot. If the ring gaps happen to be to the bottom of a particular cylinder, oil just seeps right through the gap into the cylinder for startup just like you are seeing in your pictures but it looks like some of the cylinders do not because the ring end gaps are at 3 oclock or higher. This would also explain not having to add oil. Its very minor consumption verse worn rings. All 4 of my Tr cars occasionally puffed at startup as did my Porsches. I have heard Rifledriver say that these engines can basically go forever on the stock rings. Maybe he could chime in. Valve guides, not so sure about on the TR. A few drops of oil make a lot of smoke.
     
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  17. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
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    "Trust washers" do you mean piston oil rings as "MOSS" replied?
     
  18. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    #93 turbo-joe, Mar 13, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    but also valve seals ( inlet ). there is a big vacuum with high rpm and closed trottles

    I would take out the pistons, meassure all if of this would be ok just only new rings and of course new valve seals. but also check the play from the valves in the valve guides. if too much replace the guides or let replace, you have to grind then after the valve seats.

    you tell here the engine smokes when cold. what color? blue, white or black? everybody knows blue is oil, but when you never refilled then it could no be blue. black is fuel, so enrichment during warm up and white is water. this could happen often when you go only short distances and the condenswater in the exhaust will not evaporate/vaporize because of less heat.

    on a V in 180 ° the oil is working/dropping same as in a boxer. only the crankshaft is different but this has nothing to do how the oil goes back into the sump

    absolutely right ;)
     
  19. MOSS

    MOSS Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2004
    1,619
    "on a V in 180 ° the oil is working/dropping same as in a boxer. only the crankshaft is different but this has nothing to do how the oil goes back into the sump"

    I meant after you stop the engine and it sits over night, the excess oil on the pistons and rings can drop or drain straight down to the sump by gravity on the "V" but the boxer cylinders lay on their side and the excess oil after stopping, just puddles in the cylinder and can seep past the ring end gaps if they are facing the floor, thus the puff of smoke at startup. Hope that makes more sense.
     
  20. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
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    Mikael
    It is blue like oil in start up, but it has also enrichment fuel vapour smell.
    I did notice after half of year not using car and change places in garage in idle in smoked blue from other side. I haven't notice anything while driving or accelating. I do know how "burning oil" looks like, black I think is ok for car without catalytic converters and mechanical fuel regulator, I did not drive it because winter thing.
    I think clud size puff in morning is too much, My 512BB produces only "cigarette" smoke size puff after it has standed still for weeks or over winter.

    I think oil from valve seals would make valve side moist, but I can't see it like that and that would lead towards oil rings.
     
  21. MOSS

    MOSS Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2004
    1,619
    The engines differ according to where the gaps on the rings have settled or rotated to. You 512 ring gaps may be all on the up side sealing
    the lower cylinder better after you let it set overnight. Sometimes mine just has a light puff like you say and then a cloud the next time and then
    none on the next run but it does not have anything to do with ring wear if that is the only time it does it. My opinion from my experiences but
    were you planning on rebuilding the engine anyway? Those nikasil plated cylinders are tough and barely wear with many miles. Same goes for rings
    on these engines but you are right there now so you may feel better putting new rings in. Turbo Joe has some good TR engine rebuilding knowledge.
    If this was a V style engine it would be valve seal issues for sure causing the puff but the Boxer, not so much in my opinion. Enjoying your photos and discussion.
     
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  22. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Jan 21, 2004
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    Guido
    Yes...oil ring gaps at the underside pistons instead of upperside.
    Guido
     
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  23. jjeffries

    jjeffries Formula Junior

    Sep 4, 2012
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    Connecticut
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    John Jeffries
    Just read this thread from the beginning. Super impressed not just by your collection but more at the work you do on each. Thank you for sharing the ride. John
     
  24. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
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    Thank you,
    Many times I find fixing something done by service, like this huge oil leak on this Testarossa, but doing these things my self is also best way to service things that goes overlook by regular service, because there is no need service to open somethin "as you are there", but I can. It is also only way I can drive these cars; I own only 512BB, Lamborghini Diablo coupe and Countach in my country, here leteraly is no place to get these cars serviced.

    Also take this post to make comparison between Ferrari and Lamborghini, since last summer I pulled engine out from my Diablo, to fix Bosch starter...
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    btw, it's 2 meter long
    Because both cars use exactly same valve followers, shims and both use 15mm head nuts, meaning that same head and valve tools work with Testarossa and Diablo. They are very similar in that way.
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    [​IMG]

    btw. Chain is better over cam belt...
     
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  25. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    when I compare the upper half bearing shells from the camshafts is obvious to me why lamborghini is more a "tractor", F is much more viligree.
    I like the timing chain instead of the belt ;)

    just now to lazy to have a look, but does someone knows the timing times? so when IV and AV will open and close at the lamborghini?
     

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