Grey market 360? | FerrariChat

Grey market 360?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Deadshort, Feb 20, 2019.

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  1. Deadshort

    Deadshort Rookie

    Sep 6, 2018
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    Are these worth less or more? I have seen a few cars with euro vins for sale and just wondering if it affects the resale much?
     
  2. Nachtfalter

    Nachtfalter Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2012
    446
    So-Cal
    #2 Nachtfalter, Feb 20, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
    Without a BAR sticker and cats it cannot be registered in California. CARFAX also often has no info which scares away many buyers. So, yes, resale will be effected.
     
  3. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
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    Depends...if you don't live in california and it has a carfax. The euro sounds better without the pre-cats and looks better/cleaner without the side marker lights, I'd pay more than a US spec equally matched counterpart. ;)
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #4 Rifledriver, Feb 20, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
    I believe you would but the fact remains the market as a whole does not agree with you. Gray market cars are never as strong a price on the market and never as easy a sale.
     
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  5. rotaryrocket7

    rotaryrocket7 Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2011
    580
    Eden Prairie, MN
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    Matt
    Agree with this. I have a "grey" market car that's been brought in correctly to the US, but it would suffer at resale I suspect. If you're buying to own and drive, I don't see it as a deficit- i bought mine as it had the right spec (race seats, right color, etc...).
     
  6. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
    772
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    I can only speak from my market, where I shopped for a 360 for almost a year.
    the euro-spec cars were a rare breed, very uncommon, even so, I never saw cheaply priced grey Market cars over my course of searching the southwest and Texas over that time.

    So for me and this region it's a non-issue.

    Which region are you speaking about specifically?
     
  7. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Aug 25, 2005
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    As noted, there is a price differential but it has shrunk over the years. On the plus side: buy for less sell for less isn't bad as long as you know that is what you are getting into. When buying a euro you want records of the import, approvals, etc. The quality of the work on import varies so you have to look into it a bit. As noted, it also needs a BAR sticker or you lose all CA buyers and that impacts price. Euros are not covered by campaigns so those are potentially out of pocket costs; they are less of an issue as the cars age. In short, look at condition first when buying a 360.
     
  8. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
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    Who told you this??

    I have a 99 euro and I just had two old campaigns done, the ASR/ABS module and one of the heat shields, completed this past month free of charge at my local Ferrari dealer.
     
  9. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    As you probably know, I had one for 13 years. FNA will not cover a euro car in the US because they weren't paid for it; At least that is what FNA says. Then again, there aren't that many campaigns that are still outstanding on cars this old so mostly a moot point.


    To be clear: I meant FNA would not pay for them. Not would not do them.
     
  10. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
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    Hans
    Mine were free of charge :)
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    The USA.
    As a sample of one I will not argue with your experience. I have been in the exotic business for over 40 years and it is a well understood phenomena.
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    We sold a great many BBi's 400's 412's a few 288's etc. As a dealer we bought direct from Ferrari Spa. The cars were covered by a warranty from Ferrari but it is handled very differently so the cars are covered but you need to deal with Ferrari or really the selling dealer....whoever that is.
     
  13. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Hi Brian. I hope things are going well in Austin. Sold the 360 and got a 599 but still read this section.

    Your comments make sense. My old car was sold in Spain and brought to the US by the owner, not a dealer, so maybe that was part of it. Also possible the Dealer didn't know the process to work to SPA, or didn't want to do it. Plus these cars are long out of warranty now so they can technically pick and choose what they will/won't do.
     
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Things are good.

    Outside of North America the selling dealer is responsible for warranty repair so technically the car must be returned to him. Factory only reimburses parts. The dealer had a big enough profit margin on the new car he is expected to eat labor costs. In the US that is not legal so it is handled differently but explains the factories attitude towards warranty work.

    As the selling dealer for the cars I mentioned we were still responsible for warranty work and we actually did replace a BBi engine under warranty. In most cases though the dealers blew it off because they didn't get labor costs and just straight up lied about the warranty availability.
     
  15. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
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    Agree, it is a phenomena, but there's also a lot of OLD stigma. As the 360 and 430 are old and out of warranty, it's not so much an issue anymore unless you're in California with emissions.
    Are you speaking about the current market?

    I see you're in Austin, which dealer are you at?I spent some years there for my training at the old Brackenridge.
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I was at 2 different dealers in California.


    Not an old stigma at all. I am currently looking for a 550 for a client. I am in touch with several people I know in the business around the country. Several times we have looked at what is available and every gray market car is automatically dismissed by them because they know few if any want one and they know I will never put a client in one. It is a very real, current issue and not just for smog reasons.
     
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  17. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

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    Curious...what are their reasons?
     
  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    My clients want good clean and well taken care of cars. On average gray market cars do not fit that description.
     
  19. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

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    Sorry, really not trying to argue as I respect your opinion and experience, but like I said there's a lot of old stigma.

    Really is this a grey Market issue or is it a condition issue?
    Sounds like the latter.

    So if you came across a well-maintained, great condition grey market 550 that's at a reasonable price they wouldn't buy it... just because it's Grey Market?
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Its both. The rapists who converted them did the cars no favors to start with. Then why was it imported in the first place? To cut costs. Many were imported as used cars and not a great deal of selectivity was exercised then and when it was is was price shopping. Most of Europe uses salt on the roads. Some countries do not but cars from those countries cost more so usually are not the ones bought. Then in most cases the cars went to price shopper who did not exercise as great a level of care.

    As a group when shopping for quality it is best to just avoid the entire class. I have been in the business for 43 years, in the exotic business for 41 of those and have been very closely involved with gray market cars for almost that entire time. Most of my colleagues are of the same mind. That is why gray market cars occupy the position they do.


    Its not old stigma. Its today stigma.
     
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  21. cgfen

    cgfen Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2015
    447
    vista ca
    IMO the majority of buyers will consider a grey market car to be less valuable than non grey market.
    Even if you find one you like and are able to register it, your buyer pool will be smaller when time comes to sell.
    I miss this grey market car I owned for a month and could not smog in CA

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  22. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Grigio Alloy paint color?
     
  23. randkin

    randkin Formula 3
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    Aug 2, 2015
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    I see two issues for Euro cars:

    1) Just by the fact it is a Euro car makes it a "story car" and some buyers will not look at story cars. No car fax, likely no maintenance records which can be checked so you are going completely on the PPI which cannot catch everything.
    2) No CA market which certainly limits the buyers.

    So I would have to think that the buying price and selling price would be negatively affected for all Euro cars just by the fact of less buyers for those cars.
     
  24. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
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    Appreciate the well-thought-out reply and time, thanks!
     
  25. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    99' Euro here... I have absolutely no expectation that my car with its 64k miles would fetch as much as an equivalent US car in equal condition. I bought it BECAUSE it was a euro car for significantly less than a US car back in the day when no body gave a rats about gated cars.

    That being said, as a gated red Modena with sport seats if I ever decide to sell in the future, I have the prerogative to chuckle at low-ball offers claiming "because it's a euro car.." and can just say "Well buy a US car then with the same spec.. ". :)

    FWIW the old euro stigma still holds though I expect at 20 years out all the issues will have been resolved by now and conscientious owners will have *corrected* any botched conversion BS. Cali BAR sticker of course notwithstanding.
     
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