ARRIVABENE LEAVING FERRARI... | Page 4 | FerrariChat

ARRIVABENE LEAVING FERRARI...

Discussion in 'F1' started by Dino2010, Oct 1, 2018.

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  1. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,501
    Atlanta
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    Tom Spiro
    Totally agree with Bernie. They are back to how it was in the 80's... close but no cigar. They need a non Italian GM... running the team who does not speak or read Italian. They get too caught up in the press and what is being said on TV etc... its crazy. This is firmly laid at the feet of Luca Di Montezemolo... he broke up the dream team... trying to be 100% Italian .. stupid... stupid arrogant thing to do.
     
    Jakuzzi likes this.
  2. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,501
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    Tom Spiro
    Its the background politics. The only time Ferrari are successful is when there is a dictator at the helm... Enzo ( most of the 50's and sporadically in the 60's and 70's - too old in the 80's to be effective, but nevertheless he kept the team in the running ... LDM and Marchionne. they need to find a new power center... who can call all the shots and not be sniped at from inside Ferrari. They are their own worst enemy.
     
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  3. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2010
    777
    "Too Political," absolutely....but the Brawn/Todt/Schumacher era notwithstanding, I think the "too Italian" thing has always been a bit of a cop-out (as well as a bit of a slur.) While the pressures are not quite to the same level, I cannot help but think of the current "all Italian" setup over at highly successful Ducati Corse:
    Dall’Igna, Ciabatti, Tardozzi...all passionate but absolutely icecool. And they're all highly technical men...not lawyers or tobacco execs, etc. Even CEO Claudio Domenicali is an engineer.
     
  4. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
    8,102
    The Horn
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    Igor Ound
    Considering Mercedes snatches all the Italians Ferrari fires don’t think the nationality is the problem. Arrivabene is just not good enough irrespectively and Binotto should take his place
     
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  5. Dino2010

    Dino2010 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 20, 2006
    4,852
    Belgium
    True but, Ducati is owned by Volkswagen AG.....
    And in MotoGP, Ducati is second behind Honda...
     
  6. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2010
    777
    Seemingly Volkswagen have a very hands off approach - and the race team is very much a "all Italian" affair from a management perspective.
    The point being that they have very calmly and methodically produced and honed what is very likely the finest machine on the GP grid at the moment, and done so with minimal "theatrics" or "political infighting" which characterizes the stereotypical Italian race team.
     
  7. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
    3,001
    London UK
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    Graham
    I agree with Fer312t, if Ferrari loses it’s Italian nature completely it would cease to be Ferrari.
    The point is well made about Ducati Course, and the ills of the current national team aside look at the success of Italian football.
    Anybody who has ever been to Northern Italy and seen the creative and manufacturing industries there will know that the Italians are more than capable of being innovative and organised.

    On a similar note , while I’m proud of Britain’s F1 industry, Mercedes should go and base themselves in Germany to become real “silver arrows”.
     
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  8. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro


    It may be a national Slur but it has merit. when the team runs in English its much better, vs. Italian. I don't know if you speak a romance language or not, but when you are fluent you start to think in that language... and some languages are more clear than others. English and German are much more specific and technical that Italian. English and German are less passionate and artistic than Romance languages. I think this is a fundamental issue for Ferrari.

    Ferrari speaks about "emotion" as an element in their cars. In English you can interpret "emotion" into feeling, feel, touch, sensations, etc... what exactly are they talking about? the style, look, smell, performance, sensations g forces etc....? the same thing comes through in strategy and technical advancement.

    When I say the team are too Italian - they are too nationalistic - Ferrari is Italian. it will always be, much as Bugatti is French even though its owned by Germans.....

    Italians have always had difficulty in second guessing and criticizing ... its a national pastime. Enzo Ferrari was always cranked up reading the news papers of the day - or being criticized by the Vatican, or local governments etc... he took it personal, he took it like an artist... at least in the beginning. towards the end when he was the "Grand Old Man" he used it to his advantage, but also fell into the trap of having minions doing his bidding and getting into the political trap of having to figure out who was telling him the truth. Its much the same today... is it Arrivebene? or is it Vettle? or was it Marchionne? or Elkan or Piero? who is trying to exert influence - who's ego was hurt, who has control now etc....

    I love Italy -Italians and Ferrari. always have and always will - even when they treat you like crap.... but the reality is for them to succeed they need a strong man who can make real decisions and make them stick. Today - there is nobody.
     
    Greg34 likes this.
  9. Greg34

    Greg34 Formula Junior
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    Mar 31, 2010
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    Well stated and I believe after decades of following F1 and dealing with Engineering issues internationally, very true. Language and cultural differences have a profound effect on the final product whatever it may be
     
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  10. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 9, 2005
    20,682
    Full Name:
    Christian.Fr
    It is always there same story with Ferrari, in the morning we have ARRIVABENE
    end of evening ANDAREBENE.

    What a waste with Ferrari, we come in and we go out like a windmill.
     
  11. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 7, 2003
    22,179
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    C9H8O4
    I feel like getting rid of him is like checking the air in the tires because the car won't start. The team has been in constant improvement since he arrived. No small achievement. They need to get rid of their head strategist. That guy is a real doorstop.
     
  12. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 15, 2012
    33,723
    Texas/Colorado
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    George Pepper
    Firing Arrivabene won't cure all the team's ills, but a new leader with a more ruthless outlook would help. Ferrari had a great opportunity this year, and they've all but squandered it.
     
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  13. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    #88 freshmeat, Oct 3, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
    I think you give Seb too much credit, the re-.org wasn’t driven or led by him. And also given how long it’s been since Ferrari won, I personally could care less about a great losing team...

    Above all, Seb has faltered INCREDIBLY as a driver hence the points gap this season in championship-capable equipment. Keeping him is like driving a car with a flat.


     
  14. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I mean getting rid of Arriviaiaiabenenene. I am one of Seb's biggest detractors; I'd love to see him go.
     
  15. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Igor Ound
    Arrivabene has dismisses all rumours saying his future is at ferrari.
     
  16. WPOZZZ

    WPOZZZ F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2012
    6,477
    Honolulu, HI
  17. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Pedro Braga Soares
    confirmation that he's leaving!!!
     
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  18. Jeronimo GTO

    Jeronimo GTO Formula 3

    May 15, 2010
    2,021
    MISSION LEAVE NOW!
     
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  19. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Joe R Gonzales
    I have'nt seen it. It's just he's on a list of possible candidates running the Juventus soccer team.
     
  20. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    George Pepper
    jgonzalesm6 likes this.
  21. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    So ,he has been a board member of Juventus since 2012,another non story.
     
  22. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,482
    The Binotto instead of Arrivabene has been a non story since mid 2015, as far as I can remember.

    It could happen at some time and then these journalists will say "I told you so".
     
  23. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro
    I think Ferrari's biggest concern now is next year and how to keep Vettel happy. If Leclerc starts to produce he'll be gone - to Mercedes... or back to Red Bull. that would leave Ferrari in a very weak position with out an experienced driver. Ferrari have to get the strategy and team focused on one driver and that is Vettel, and put Leclerc in the position of Rubens or Irvine.... 100% support... until Vettel retires.

    The management team have to get their act together now... and make the best of the rest of the year - 2nd place ..in both championships. Riakkonnen has to be a firm #2... and they need to get tire stops and tire deg strategy right.

    I completely 100% disagree that Vettel is the "problem" - I think the pressure has got to him but it think its the pressure of him having to make up for poor team performance ... perhaps the car is really good - but only by a hair from Mercedes.... on track he's the equal of Hamilton... but stops and strategy are killing the team.

    In my opinion he's making mistakes because he knows its up to him to deliver carrying the team with him... and Raikkonnen has not helped at all - which is the teams fault.
     
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  24. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,482
    If Leclerc produces, then why we would need an experienced, but slower, driver?
     
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  25. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    Yep, I'm pinning all my hopes on the fresh meat =)
     

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