looking for documentation about k jectronic injection for mondial 3.2 | FerrariChat

looking for documentation about k jectronic injection for mondial 3.2

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by jeanj, May 17, 2018.

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  1. jeanj

    jeanj Rookie

    May 17, 2018
    3
    Full Name:
    jean jacques
    Hi,

    One year ago I've purchased a Mondial 3.2 (US version with a catalytic converter) since then I've had made many repairs on the car in order to have it in good condition however I'm still experiencing hot start issues (apparently not linked with the white wire issues reported in the forum).

    My mechanic is asking me for the documentation regarding the K jectronic injection.

    Despite numerous calls to Ferrari dealers and many attempts to search for it online I couldn't find any references to this document.

    If someone has this document or knows where could I find it I would really appreciate your help (as I'm really upset to not being able to count on my car to start again after I use it...).

    Thanks a lot!

    Jean
     
  2. AUDIO RESEARCH

    AUDIO RESEARCH Formula Junior

    Feb 11, 2009
    350
    PHILIPPINES
    Full Name:
    LUIGI RAYMUND LIRA
    Hi Jean ,

    When you say documentation for the K Jetronic , do you mean the workshop manual for the K jetronic. By the way have you replaced the fuel accumulator? Its one of the most common cause of a non start issue when the car is hot.

    Best regard ,

    Luigi
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,038
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Don't follow your description of the problem -- are you saying:

    1. When trying to warm restart, the starter solenoid/motor does nothing when the key is in Pos III?

    or

    2. During warm restarts, the starter spins the engine over fine, but the engine never fires?
     
  4. Pero

    Pero Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2011
    820
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Peter R
    Have you the fuel accumulator, the "can" beside the fuel filter, in good order? This could effect problem with hot start. Also fuel injectors in good condition? These are easy, relatively, fixes and not to expensive to start with before going into the K-injection system. Sort of ruling out problem areas.
    /Peter
     
  5. Pero

    Pero Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2011
    820
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Peter R
    You were several seconds ahead of me Luigi!
    /Peter
     
  6. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    3,628
    Canada
    I don't think there is a manual for the K fuel injection system, there is a separate one for the KE-3 which I have, applies to a Swiss market Mondial 3.2, and some Testarossa's I think. It uses a higher pressure and has some other differences, but might well be of some similarity to the K, a lot of the manual deals which each component, and has various tests and specifications outlined.

    An available K manual I am aware of is this one dealing with Bosch more generically, the K system is identical to those used on period Mercedes, so was a common system in its day.

    http://ferrari.cdyn.com/misc/Bosch_K-Jetronic_Fuel_Injection_Manual.pdf

    You can check the fuel accumulator by removing the hose from the back of the accumulator that goes back into the gas tank, it should be dry, if there is any fuel coming out the rubber diaphragm inside has failed. It is very accessible and easy to check. Common cause of hard hot starts.
     
  7. jeanj

    jeanj Rookie

    May 17, 2018
    3
    Full Name:
    jean jacques
    Hi Luigi, I'm not sure about the workshop manual or if it's a document specific for the Mondial 3.2 using this system. To be more specific I believe it's the "Ferrari 539/89" publication.

    The fuel accumulator has been changed in February last year.

    Hi Steve, it's option 2. To be more precise, first time I start the engine it's perfectly fine, I'm still testing right now but it looks the issue is when I try to restart the engine after more than 30 minutes. But if I wait more than 4 to 5 hours it restarts just fine.

    Hi Pero, the fuel accumulator is brand new. I'm not sure about the fuel injectors but I will double check
     
  8. jeanj

    jeanj Rookie

    May 17, 2018
    3
    Full Name:
    jean jacques
    Hi Moysiuan, I've purchased the car in Switzerland but it was coming from the US, it's a model from 1986, I'm not 100% sure but I believe the KE-3 is what I'm looking for.
     
  9. AUDIO RESEARCH

    AUDIO RESEARCH Formula Junior

    Feb 11, 2009
    350
    PHILIPPINES
    Full Name:
    LUIGI RAYMUND LIRA
    Hi ,

    Since you've replaced the accumulator last year , it wont hurt if you check it following the instruction of Moysiuan. When it does not start please check if there is spark and fuel. If one is absent you wont be able to start the car. It would be easier to diagnose if one know's w/c is absent and you'll know were to start.

    Hope this helps ,

    Luigi
     
  10. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,903
    Central Florida
    I have an excellent/exact copy of the factory manual for the k-jetronic fuel injection system - pm me for details.
    Alden
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,038
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #11 Steve Magnusson, May 18, 2018
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
    Not clear if you have K-Jet or KE-3 Jet (can't recall when KE-3 was introduced on CH version, but thought it was after 1986).

    Your mechanic should certainly first confirm spark is still present as the others suggested, but the next step would be to measure the regulated supply fuel pressure after engine shutoff (I forget the exact spec, but it should stay near 2.5~3 bar for 20 minutes after warm engine shutoff). If the regulated supply fuel pressure wrongly drops too quickly there are three possible causes on K-Jet or KE-3 Jet (assuming that you don't have some external leak):

    1. K-Jet: Bad Accumulator with fuel leaking out vent nipple (On a euro version, this is easy to spot as fuel will leak on the ground. On a US version, they add a hose from the vent nipple back to the fuel tank so not outwardly visible, and you have to remove the hose from the vent nipple to see if any fuel comes out.)
    KE-3 Jet: fuel leaking out (IIRC, this uses the Accumulator with no vent nipple, just a vent hole.

    2. Bad o-ring in fuel distributor pressure regulator section (K-Jet).
    Bad pressure regulator (KE-3 Jet).

    3. Bad check valve in fuel pump (and there are two different types of fuel pumps that get confused and wrongly swapped so we have had reports of cars wrongly being modified with no check valve present).

    However, none of this should be messed with before measuring the regulated supply fuel pressure and confirming that it is wrongly dropping.

    The Mondial 8/QV WSM 281/83 chapter D is Ferrari's write up on K-Jet operation -- http://ferrari.cdyn.com/ferrari_docs/mondial8qv_workshop_281-83.pdf
     
  12. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    Will it hot start with the throttle wide open (gas pedal all the way to the floor) ?

    Sounds like your fuel mixture might be too rich.
     
  13. Michael Reed McNabb

    Sep 17, 2018
    8
    Ballwin, Missouri
    Full Name:
    Michael Reed McNabb
    Hi JeanJ
    Another great resource for almost anything Bosch FI related, is "Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management," by Charles O. Probst SAE. (p. Robert Bentley). My car needed a complete fuel delivery tune-up at one point several years ago, and the purchase of this book was a wonderful 'toolbox' addition. It covers ALL types of Bosch injection, but will have everything you'll need to know if you're a do-it-yourselfer. Also has a section on modification and performance tuning.
     
  14. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    Fitted on Volvo and others, easy to find
     
  15. Mechanical Dad

    Mechanical Dad Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2016
    381
    East Aurora NY
    Full Name:
    Josh
  16. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    I would caution that the earlier systems were somewhat different. Sounds like the OP has "K-Jet with lambda". E.g., there is no full load vacuum enrichment on the lambda system. Operation, and settings from the earlier systems may not apply exactly.

    There is some documentation in the original owner's manual, including a diagram of the injection system ECU. Also look for Ferrari Service Bulletin 10-13.

    The K-Jet is something of a black art at this point. Perhaps you could post your mechanic's test results on this forum, so others can help.
     

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