Wanted - F430 Coupe- Rosso Corsa or Blk <100k | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Wanted F430 Coupe- Rosso Corsa or Blk <100k

Discussion in 'Ferraris' started by Zack Hawker, Aug 28, 2018.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. SeaNile

    SeaNile Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2010
    679
    West Chester, PA
    Full Name:
    John
    I suppose about 10K from trade is extremely reasonable. How much can it possibly cost to turn a car around, assuming no mechanical work is required? A detail job isn't more than a few hundred bucks. So, I would think 10k is more than enough, which should be a total of about 100k for a well cared for, documented f430. Isn't that kind of what started all of this? 100k for a f430 given a trade of 85-90k, add in 10k profit and we are right back at 100k for the car.
     
    neil e dale likes this.
  2. Alcav5

    Alcav5 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2012
    3,970
    Scarsdale, NY
    Full Name:
    Al
    Ok, but I think it's a little bit more. Ex. If the dealer is buying my car for $90k , then I'm also benefiting from a tax credit of $6750. So in effect I'm getting $96,750. For the same car I'm not selling it privately for no less than $5k, maybe more. Call it the private sale hassle fee.
     
  3. SeaNile

    SeaNile Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2010
    679
    West Chester, PA
    Full Name:
    John
    I agree 100%, $96,750 for round numbers does not equate to 120-125k for the car when it sold from the dealer.
     
  4. Alcav5

    Alcav5 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2012
    3,970
    Scarsdale, NY
    Full Name:
    Al
    From your perspective.

    As a buyer there is a value (obvious and not) to buying from a dealer as opposed to privately . So if I'm selling privately and it's listed at $101,750, then expect the dealer's minimum to be , Idk , $10k more . And if he's in the business to make money then I would expect him to ask for double the minimum thereby leaving himself room to negotiate. That brings the reasonable sale price to $121,750. Just saying.
     
  5. SeaNile

    SeaNile Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2010
    679
    West Chester, PA
    Full Name:
    John
    Hear what you are saying. Maybe after I drive a 430 my opinion will change. I loved my 360 and wish I drove it more before selling. My bias comes from this site saying the 430 is merely a half generation "improvement" over the 360 and not a completely new/different car. Now the 458 for some reason seems like its value is north of 150k just because of how awesome the car is and the huge leap ahead of the 360/430 platform.

    I still have till about June 1 before I can write the check for whatever car comes my way at that point. 458 would be a dream come true but the price has got to be realistic for me, otherwise it'll be a 430 with all the stuff sorted out.
     
    neil e dale likes this.
  6. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 27, 2018
    367
    Tucson AZ
    Full Name:
    neil e dale
    yes, myself as well , a 430 almost 500 HP ? is good and you could do some power improvement! different pipes, intake, maybe a chip? everything can be improved! well, when someone is spending a LOT of $ they justify it! I think you would be happy w/ an F 430, I will! If you want OMG acceleration? buy another Italian machine! a Ducati superbike, a 214+ HP Panigale V4 ! 365 lbs weight! 0-60 MPH = 2.6 seconds ! only $40,000 ! , New! [​IMG]
     
    fossilfuel likes this.
  7. SeaNile

    SeaNile Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2010
    679
    West Chester, PA
    Full Name:
    John
    If I didn't previously own a 360 the 430 would be an absolute dream for me. Looking at the 430 the other day at the dealer all I could see is my 360 with a few visual alterations whereas the 458 looked like a completely different car straight from the future.
     
    neil e dale likes this.
  8. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 27, 2018
    367
    Tucson AZ
    Full Name:
    neil e dale
    well there are definite quantifiable differences as the experts say ! here are some excerpts - "
    If I had to put a number on it, I would say that comfort and refinement is about 20% better in the F430. Aside from a more modern looking interior, the cabin just feels just that little bit better (from both seats). The switches have been moved around a touch, it is nice not to have to lift a little flap to open the front boot and fuel cap (both have been moved to the dash). Minor improvements like the increased shade cover over the instrument binnacle are very welcome and all add up to the way it feels behind the wheel. One of my favourite changes is the switch to displaying temperatures in Celcius – for someone who was taught in metric it is nice to finally pack away my conversion table.

    However, the big ticket item in this area is the suspension mapping. The active suspension from the 360 was carried over but the factory clearly did a lot of work in further optimizing how the system worked. The 360 always felt a little harsh over UK roads when running 19″ wheels – the F430 is in a different class. The 360 has always felt very planted when cornering but the F430 takes it a step further. It is very hard to describe the difference felt during “normal” driving but there is a tangible gap between the two models, which widens the faster you go......................................................................
    there is a noticeable difference with the F1 gearbox. I should begin by saying that I really rate the F1 gearboxes, even those fitted to early 360s. In my opinion these cars are designed to be driven quickly and anything that helps with this is a good thing. The 360 F1 gearboxes need to be driven in a certain way – they have their quirks which can be driven around. I think that many people who dismiss the F1 on a 360 don’t really know how to get the most out of it.

    The F1 system on the F430 is in a different league though. Take off from standstill is much improved – the clutch is fed in a lot more positively that it pretty much feels like an automatic car when pulling away. Gearshift speeds at WOT are exactly the same between both tipos at 150ms. However the F430 shifts a lot faster at all other times. Another difference is the engagement of a lower gear when downshifting – the 360 sometimes felt a little lazy when dropping down the ‘box but the F430 blips the engine to the correct speed and swiftly gets the clutch closed. It is so much faster to engage that you get noticeably more braking force at the rear wheels.

    The engine is first of two big differences between the models. The 360 F131 was the last in the long line of engine evolution that lasted nearly 40 years whereas the F430 engine (F136) is brand new and the first in a line that has continued into the 458 and California.

    In stock trim the F430 has an additional 85 bhp over the 360 but this is only part of the story. I have placed the two engine outputs side by side in the graphic below – it can be seen that the 360 has a fairly flat torque curve with a peak of 373Nm. The F430 has more torque than this available at all speeds above 3,500 rpm and tops out at 465Nm (a 25% increase).
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    What does this mean in real life? To get the best out of the 360 engine it has to spend its time at or just below the red line. It is very easy to “bog down” in a high gear if the engine speed is allowed to drop. The F430 has none of this and is a lot easier to drive, even more so in manual trim where correcting an gear selection can be tricky after committing to a corner. I have been lucky to drive amongst some very quick cars and drivers on both roads and track. To keep up with the best of them I have always had to absolutely wring the neck out of the 360. Don’t get me wrong, driving like that is fun but with the F430 I can step it down a notch and still go faster. However, all that has invariably happened is that I’m wringing the neck out of the F430 and going much faster than before!

    The second big difference are the electronic control systems. The 360 has the relatively basic Anti Slip Regulation (ASR) system which cuts engine power when the rear wheels lose traction. With the car in Normal Mode this can be too intrusive even at slower speeds and at a fast pace the car can become almost undrivable. Things get better with the car in Sport Mode but I still found the power being cut when I didn’t want it to be. Obviously this can be fixed by turning the ASR off but I have only had the courage to do this a handful of times when I have been under 1-2-1 tuition from professional racing drivers.

    The step change was the introduction of the E-Diff to the F430. This is a very clever piece of engineering that controls the torque distribution between the two rear wheels by activating two clutches inside the diff using hydraulic fluid. The car also has ASR, CST (Stability Control), MSR (Engine braking torque adjustment) along side the E-Diff. All of these systems work in perfect harmony to provide an almost surreal driving experience.

    The graphic below shows the corner speeds measured by Ferrari for the 360 and F430 at the hairpin of the Fiorano Circuit. The first thing to notice is that the apex speeds are almost identical – which is to be expected as the chassis are the same. That’s pretty much the only comparable part. The F430 can carry a lot more speed in the early part of the corner and once you’re past the apex the amount of power it can put down early on is astonishing.............................................. Image Unavailable, Please Login ..........
    There is one area that the 360 wins hands down and that is the exhaust note. The F430 just doesn’t do it for me as much as the 360 did but it is a sacrifice that I’m willing to make. However, apart from this, there isn’t anything that the 360 does that the F430 can’t do about 20-25% better.

    So where does this leave us? Well if you have the budget then I can recommend the F430 without question. However, I recognise that there’ll be many 360 owners out there wondering if it’s worth trading in their car and spending an extra £20k on a newer model. My answer would be to look carefully at your how you use the 360 – if you don’t see the track then you wont really get the most out of an F430. However, if you like to be on the business side of a racing circuit then it is definitely worth the upgrade. For maximum thrills ditch the OEM manifolds for an extra 20hp, fit MPSS tyres and spec carbon brakes.
     
    eyeman1234 likes this.
  9. SeaNile

    SeaNile Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2010
    679
    West Chester, PA
    Full Name:
    John
    Reality check for me. 94% of the time the car will be in my garage where I will often walk out and say holy s**t, look at that car. The other times will spent driving through the beautiful country roads of Chester County, PA and running errands. No track time, no racing, no launches, I'm 45 but barely go over the posted speed limit. I know, what a waste for the car but the joy of ownership is what I love.
    Only a few reasons why I'd prefer the 458 over the 430....it looks cooler to me and the 458 seems to have less issues. I know the internet is a wonderful place to spread the word of issues but you'd think every F1 430 is nothing but trouble. I know that is not true but it also does not make me want to pay the premium for a MT. If I'm spending that much there will be a 458 in my garage.
     
    neil e dale likes this.
  10. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 27, 2018
    367
    Tucson AZ
    Full Name:
    neil e dale
    more 360 VS F430 differences ! - Technologically, the Ferrari F430 was a huge jump over the Modena. At 186 mph, the airflow-sensitive underbody produced 50 percent more downforce than the Ferrari 360. On the steering wheel were two Ferrari road-car precedents: an ignition “start” button and the F1-derived manettino control. The latter dialed in five different driving modes affecting such variables as ride stiffness, traction-system response, and, with the F1 gearbox, shift points.... Finally on this forum itself ! .................................................................................................................................................................................................................
    wads the diff between 360 and f430 ? | FerrariChat - The world's ...
    https://www.ferrarichat.com › Forums › Model Specific Discussions › 360/430
    Feb 8, 2007 - hey everyone, im new here to ferrarichat, mind if you guys tell me wads the difference between a 360 modena and a f430 ?? and the price for ...
    Differences in Ferrari 360 Model Years | FerrariChat
    Aug 8, 2013
    Differences between 360 and 430 | FerrariChat
    Jul 8, 2013
    Reception of 458 vs 430 vs 360 vs ? | FerrariChat
    Aug 29, 2012
    Cali vs. 430 spider (and 360 spider) | FerrariChat
    May 10, 2012
    More results from www.ferrarichat.com
    Differences between 360 and 430 | Ferrari Chat
    www.ferrarichat.com › Forums › Model Specific Discussions › 360/430
    Jul 8, 2013 - 50 posts - ‎33 authors
    I thought it would be neat to run a Thread listing the differences between the 360 and 430 for prospective buyers. Besides a significant ...
     
    eyeman1234 likes this.
  11. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 27, 2018
    367
    Tucson AZ
    Full Name:
    neil e dale
    Not all get that tax break! you have to OWE tax $ ! don't think it should be counted! i think 10 K$ Is a fair mark up for a dealer too but hey they will get as much as they can ! we note that the price of cars for sale is about the same fr private or a dealer! ( OK dealers are more ) and when the dealers don't sell at their inflated price some, many lower the price then it is BOOM quickly gone! so when a private seller can sell his car for about the same as a dealer. Good Question! why would he accept, trade it in for a low 85- 90 K $ ? just say NO ! sell it yourself ! . or consign! I suspect to many ,a measly 30-40K $ difference is chump change ! LOL
     
  12. ScudMarks

    ScudMarks Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 22, 2018
    330
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Matthew Mauer
    I can only speak for myself and a few others in the business, as I don't have access to financials of all dealers. BUT...the days of $30k mark ups are long gone. I haven't even seen it in my generation. $15k sure, but that takes into account a little recon, but mostly the cost of floor space. Here in CA, a single car will cost about $750/month for storage, advertising, etc. Taking on an average of 6 months to sell, each car can cost $4,500 before it sells. I wish I could make a years tuition off one car, but it ends up being the same profit as Lexus RX by the end of the day.
     
    Mbutner and neil e dale like this.
  13. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 27, 2018
    367
    Tucson AZ
    Full Name:
    neil e dale
    yes who would? so buy the car at a price you will pay and sell it yourself when it's time at a fair mark up or current value, less than a dealer would charge ? and give another aspiring Ferrari owner a shot at living his dream ! it would still be more probably than a dealer would give you for a trade so what is to lose?
     
  14. efg2014

    efg2014 Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2014
    611
    Northern California
    Get the car that you like, one that gives you a strong emotional response. Who cares about if it has more horsepower or "handles better". Also If newer is better than I guess the 296HP 250 GTO would not meet the standards.
     
    neil e dale likes this.
  15. Racersdrive

    Racersdrive Karting

    May 21, 2013
    75
    Los Gatos, CA
    Full Name:
    Michael Cesario
    Zack: Give Roberto Roselli a call at Roselli's in San Jose - He runs a highly respected, independent Italian oriented auto repair shop and has several 430's on hand and I believe still available for purchase. Give him a call at 408-297-0303 for details on what he currently has for sale. Mike Cesario, Racers Drive.
     
    neil e dale likes this.
  16. Mbutner

    Mbutner Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2005
    1,689
    Bay Area / Washington DC
    Full Name:
    Quick Draw
    eyeman1234 likes this.
  17. Zack Hawker

    Zack Hawker Karting

    Feb 27, 2018
    132
    Paradise Valley, Az
    Full Name:
    Zack Az Realtor
    THANKS Racersdrive:
    A reply that actually has something to do with the Thread that I created. :oops::D:rolleyes:
    Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm. It's just that I get an email every couple hours and think it's a lead and it's not. Pulling on my heart strings..;)
     
    neil e dale likes this.
  18. eyeman1234

    eyeman1234 Formula 3
    Owner

    Dec 25, 2006
    1,881
    Boca Raton, FL
    neil e dale, Mbutner and SeaNile like this.
  19. eyeman1234

    eyeman1234 Formula 3
    Owner

    Dec 25, 2006
    1,881
    Boca Raton, FL
  20. Zack Hawker

    Zack Hawker Karting

    Feb 27, 2018
    132
    Paradise Valley, Az
    Full Name:
    Zack Az Realtor
    If I had to custom pick an interior that would be it. Looks Amazing..
     
    eyeman1234 likes this.
  21. greeenPuMA

    greeenPuMA Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
    22
    Full Name:
    Luke Kim
    I wonder how many people here are young enough to ride this thing.
    It is very nice motorcycle but it will kill your back and neck once you ride it for about an hour or two. lol
     
    neil e dale likes this.
  22. ty423

    ty423 Karting

    Jun 9, 2015
    156
    Socal OC
    Full Name:
    Tony
    I've got a 2007 Black F430 with 30K miles. F1. $120,000 because of a big list of mods. Almost have everything from scudding swiss. Chipped. Bigger aftermarket wheels and tires. Hamann add-on kit, Upgraded Audio (JL Audio,Arc Audio, Focal, Scuderia Audio), Titanium oil cap and gas cap (OEM) Agency Power header, Kressieg exhaust etc.... This is what I remember off the top of my head... let me know if interested [email protected]

    Just did upper and lower ball joints as well as new rotors and pads

    I still have the stock exhaust and header as well as some other random things. I do have receipts of most of the mods that I purchased.

    This is the installation video of the audio...get a look at my car.
     
    neil e dale and eyeman1234 like this.
  23. Zack Hawker

    Zack Hawker Karting

    Feb 27, 2018
    132
    Paradise Valley, Az
    Full Name:
    Zack Az Realtor
    Wow, lots of work and love went into that. Congrats on a sweet ride, just over my budget. Good luck on the sale.
     
  24. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,897
    Wyoming
    If you want to find a car in weeks or months vs. years, for 430 and the like you will need to look nationally. That doesn't mean literally everywhere and every car...rather you start with all cars and then narrow it down based on the dealer and all the other factors (for example - rightly or wrongly - I don't shop cars in Florida or with Florida title histories). The good cars are well taken care of and the region alone (and its winter road conditions) are not a concern (for modern cars) but there are still the title issues like in Florida and flood cars in some other places on occasion to watch out for).

    I bought my first Maserati locally in Scottsdale because I got lucky and there it was on the dealer lot. My Challenge Stradale was a national search (there are only ~300 in the USA in total, so no choice in the matter) and I just bought another Maserati from CT and am having it shipped to AZ. I didn't even consider only looking in AZ or nearby...it would have taken forever to find the right spec, right car.

    Just have Mike (who has offered several times) hunt one down for you. He will help you define the spec/condition/mileage/etc that you want and the market price. It doesn't have to be hard...that said, for whatever reasons, a lot of guys hunt a ferrari for months/years and some never find one to buy...
     
    Automoblog likes this.

Share This Page