is the bubble due to burst? | Page 133 | FerrariChat

is the bubble due to burst?

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by PFSEX, Jan 18, 2013.

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  1. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Wow, thanks for your context. When you say it was a dog below 5000 rpm, was it no low-end torque? Did you feel the handling was not up to snuff or just harsh?

    As for the bubble, I believe this year's Pebble Beach was a record. Bradwilliams will most likely assert some fraud was involved though.
     
  2. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Going from my memories of 2006 lol, yes, it felt like really not enough torque at lower RPMs. You know they say you buy HP but you drive torque. I thought the engine was a masterpiece, but it was saddled in too large and heavy a car. Drop that thing into a car the size of an E30 and you would have a beast! And I know some people did just that. I also had an E39 525iT and my impression of the E60 M5 was it felt a lot like that wagon at lower RPMs. Obviously, it revved faster than the 525! I also thought just looking at the car, it was like they just stuffed so much into it, and it looked bloated and no one in my family enjoyed the ride.

    My 50,000 ft sense of Pebble is it seems specific cars that get specific audiences energized tended to do fairly well- but many of the cars that people put out homing to just hit a home run due to some perception of mania in the markets didn't really find traction. Again, I don't watch this stuff nearly as closely as many of you, but my gut feeling says this is the behavior of a rational marketplace- even when there might be a mania in a particular model.
     
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  3. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Thanks you your thoughtful comments, very insightful.

    Cheers
     
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  4. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    You can have that job. I sat in a Countach for less than five minutes and was already uncomfortable. Destroyed an adolescent dream of mine. I decided right then I'd rather have a 512 BBi.

    Now, I'd rather have my 360 than a BBi. :)
     
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  5. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    People enjoy different aspects of the car hobby (or any hobby, for that matter). Some people really enjoy driving their cars, some people really enjoy restoring cars, others really enjoy the idea of ordering and spec'ing out a car, some even like just looking at their cars.

    All are fine in their own way-- and can be difficult for people with different preferences to understand.
     
  6. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree en toto. I don't understand the vintage Ferrari world, nor am I curious about it. I do love going to shows and seeing the cars - and I'm thankful people preserve them - but I have no interest in driving them, so they are worth zero absolute dollars to me. I love riding motorcycles, first and foremost, and then driving, and only a relatively modern bike or car can do it for me. The 360/430 platform is the last one I'll ever be interested in, unless something drastic happens. And I'm sixty, so I'm cool with that. :)
     
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  7. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    George, I think you would love driving a vintage Ferrari. If you ever can get behind the wheel of any 250 or 275, give it a drive. I think you will love it. Maybe it won't inspire you all the way to ownership, but I promise you, you will see why people love these cars. They are so mechanical and "honest". And these cars seriously MOVE.
     
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  8. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I have no doubt that a 275 - my favorite vintage V12 - would be a hoot to drive, as my 308 is a hoot to drive, but the 308 taught me that there are vintage characteristics I no longer wish to deal with (Keep in mind my first Italian car was a '74 FIAT X1/9 I got in 1975). Riding my Beemers, the early ABS from the 90's saved my real, actual bacon more than once in over 100K miles on those bikes. Similarly, the 360's traction control showed me how shallow some of the limits are right away. Then there's the power assisted steering, wonderful at parking lot speeds (Yes, I drive my Ferraris to the grocery store sometimes). :)
     
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  9. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I hear ya. I've seen many up close in the ergonomics (should I say nongonomics) was if it was designed for contortionists or a different alien species. That said, would love to try driving. Seems like it would still be a blast!
     
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  10. sperry

    sperry Karting

    Aug 6, 2013
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    Anyone watching the RM Sotheby's London auction? Almost nothing is selling. That said, most of the high bids seem pretty fair.

    It's hard to imagine there is enough supply and demand for the ever-increasing number of sales Sotheby's appears to want to hold.
     
  11. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Okay, if someone tossed me the keys, I might take it for a joyride. :)
     
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  12. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    OT: Did you catch the high bids on the E-Types?

    Thanks,

    Sixcarbs
     
  13. sperry

    sperry Karting

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    #3313 sperry, Sep 5, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
    The (apparently no-reserve?) one that was estimated 350k-450k GBP got a high bid of 160k GBP. Eek. I don't remember whether they called out a paddle number though.

    Per the Hammer Price iPhone app, they were:

    Lot 157: Sold $135.5k, estimate $174k-213k
    Lot 164: Sold $71k, estimate $129k-161k
    Lot 171: Sold $206k, estimate $452k-581k
    Lot 177: High bid $180.7k, estimate $284k-349k
    Lot 187: High bid $180.7k, estimate $232k-271k
    Lot 192: Sold $158k, estimate $161k-226k

    If accurate, these are the hammer prices without premium.
     
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  14. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    #3314 davidoloan, Sep 5, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
    1971 Daytona 425k (passed)
     
  15. irvinest

    irvinest Karting

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    I was at RM, there didn't seem to be a bid in the house for most lots, the auctioneer walked the bids up to the "high" bids, so I wouldn't trust any of those high bids I am afraid.
     
  16. sperry

    sperry Karting

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    47 lots out of about 100 listed as still for sale on their web site.

    Take away no-reserve lots and the sell-through rate is currently well below 50%.
     
  17. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    #3317 davidoloan, Sep 5, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
    The auctioneer was stressed I imagine. He made fun of the £500 bidder on the Alfa SZ at £23,000, £2000 below what turned out to be the hammer. The bidder seemed to suggest he would retract his bid, and the auctioneer fell over himself to accept it. Not impressive.

    "oh thats a really big bid, thank you sir, love you for it, amazing, thank you for coming"

    Then

    "we'll take it, we'll take it, no don't worry, i'll take it, £23, £23,000, the bid is £23,000"
     
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Maybe the m5 guy shld have bought worldcom or tyco back in 02???


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. SCantera

    SCantera F1 Veteran
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    I agree with Tex on this one unless you have lots of spare cash looking to be spent. But sometimes you get lucky with timing. I bought a new '99 355 off the showroom floor at Algar. When the 360 Spider was announced I traded the 355 in advance and made a modest profit....$10k. I waited 3 years for my 360 to be delivered. I didn't like it much. The market was really hot in 2003-4. So I traded the 360 +$30K for a 330 GTC and a 2000 550 Maranello. I knew 330s well as I owned my first for 9 years and 100k miles. The Maranello I had never driven and had no idea. But loved it.

    The 550 was probably a slight loss on sale. The 330? They have fallen off their '14 peak by 20% or so. But the reality is that until the day comes that I am unable to push in the clutch I have no intention of selling. The current market value is pretty meaningless for me with the GTC. It's my fav of my 9 Italians :). Guess the bubble doesn't matter much unless you are intent on buying or selling.
     
  20. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Exactly. I know many are fixated on the value of their cars because (1) they want reaffirmation of their decisions, or (2) they can’t afford to take a big loss. The first is human nature. The second is sad because these owners don’t drive their cars for fear of losing money.

    Congrats, on your Maranello and GTC deal. I’ve owned both. Wonderful open road drivers.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  21. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie

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    And just think there was another nut, the under bidder, in the room tearing it up bidding that used beemer to that crazy number...
     
  22. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Could've been the auction house doing that other bidding...
     
  23. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
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    If I hadn’t already sold my 330 GT, I would have sold it a year or two ago, and would buy an absolutely perfect one a year from now.

    It’s going to be an awesome buyers’ market relatively soon.

    Matt
     
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  24. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I hope the buyer's market happens when I'm ready for a 612. :)
     
  25. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Investing in stocks is even sillier considering 99 percent of people who do that know nothing about economics, business, or fundamentals.


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