My Vintage Ferrari is more affordable then a brand new Toyota | FerrariChat

My Vintage Ferrari is more affordable then a brand new Toyota

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by paulchua, Jul 11, 2018.

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  1. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #1 paulchua, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    I know that title seems Jeremy Clarkson-esque Hyberbole. The title is true though.

    Five years ago I came to this site asking some questions about the Mondial.

    I was a bit worried about the prospect of buying a vintage Ferrari. Today, I was consolidating my repair bills, restoration, and other records. For fun, I decided to see what my fate would have been if I bought a Toyota 86' - a car with similar straight line speed as the Mondial and the hallmark of reliability, it's a great car - but also a thoroughly commoditized one.

    My suspicions confirmed. The total cost of the Toyota FR-S/86 over the last five years would have been more; I was surprised by just how much more, over $2,500 more than the Ferrari.

    I used Edmund "True Cost to Own" for the maintenance costs (I excluded repairs, as I am giving Toyota the benefit of the doubt that not one thing will break in 5 years) I used KBB for a fully loaded version with all options ticked.

    Amazing, with no exaggeration, it is true. My 30-year-old Ferrari was lighter on my wallet than a brand new Toyota if I were to sell either today 5 years later.

    Keep in mind my 25K in maintenance over the last 5 years is HEAVILY front-loaded and includes 2 30K engine outs. My Mondial had many problems (hence the cheap price) - As others here know, as time goes on and I address issues immediately, the car get's more and more trouble-free.

    The fact that my dealership has invited me to at least 5 free awesome parties, gave me a VIP tour in Maranello, provide me track sessions every year in Laguna and Sonoma, and have opened the doors to local Ferrari clubs - All I can say is Thank You, Enzo Ferrari, wherever you are.
     

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  2. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
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    Obviously, big difference is depreciation. In your case, the service costs helped offset that so that you actually had APPRECIATION. A bit of good luck on timing too as the market has taken a nice uptick.

    But even if it had cost $5000 MORE over 5 years, who wouldn't spend a $1000 a year ($85 per month) extra to drive a Ferrari over a Toyota?? :) :)

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
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  3. SaratogaCA

    SaratogaCA Formula Junior

    Sep 11, 2016
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    Furthermore, your insurance and registration is probably cheaper too.
     
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  4. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    That is correct! Insurance with 1.5mm just $70 a month for me! Registration with no smog required too! Just $127.

    No brianer!!

    Who would have thought the Ferrari being the more financialy prudent choice over a Toyota!!!!
     
  5. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Very true!! And the Toyota will trend to what $10k in another 5 years? Wheras the Ferrari will at a minimum follow inflation. Sure, 1 more 30K in the next 5 years. But in the year 2023, I have a fully sorted Mondial t, whears the Toyota..just another 10 year old car.

    Amazing and a true testimont to the genious of Enzo!
     
  6. Lotaz

    Lotaz Formula 3

    Nov 18, 2016
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    What kind of mileage is involved in this cost of ownership? Most likely the Toyota would be driven ~12,000 mile per year and what about the Ferrari?
     
  7. alexion

    alexion Formula 3
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    May 20, 2013
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    I think 5000 miles per year in the Ferrari is a fair comparison. The more you drive the Ferrari, the less problematic they seem to become.
    Resale value can be affected to a point, but items that go bad get fixed along the way and there will always be a market assuming good condition, regardless of mileage.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #8 paulchua, Jul 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
    I've put 20k miles in 5 years. I've factored that my car is high mileage, hence the realistic 35k sale price in my example above.

    That's the beauty of a fully depreciated Ferrari!

    For the Toyota say I were to drive even less miles, 2,500 a year. In 10 years you have a 10 year old Toyota with 25k miles.

    Would add perhaps an extra 5k in equity? So 15K instead of 10k.

    Still ahead...and I actually drive the car instead of garage queening it, that is bella. I'm living proof the current CSC issues' claim of a real 'affordable' Ferrari can be accurate - as many here know I've documented my journey and proven it so.
     
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  9. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    P.S. there are also what, 100,000+ FRSs BRZs, 86s on the US roads?

    Versus

    400 Mondial ts

    Lot of competition when it comes time to sell a 10 year old Toyota.

    ;)

    Thanks Enzo.
     
  10. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I also wanted to pay homage to Dr. Benjamin Brown, founder of Biscotti & Cars in Sausalito. He was one of the very first Mondial owners that welcomed me with opened arms. He owned his Mondial for over 20 years, along with other machines that were far more faster (i.e. Z06 Vette, RS5) - He would time and again tell me his favorite was his Mondial by far.

    He, like many other Mondial owners I've come to know, embraced the plebeian backlash, I remember him warmly putting his arm around me when I first had some anxiety about the purchase and simply said:

    "Paul, the Mondial is the true thinking man's Ferrari, don't worry - if you take care of her, she will take care of you, and then some"

    Rest in Peace Dr. Benjamin Brown, you were right.
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  11. otaku

    otaku Formula 3

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    I keep trying to use this kind of logic on my wife and it just doesn't work :( ended up with a damn prius for our daily
     
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  12. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    haha,

    The thing is, I would not daily the Mondial if the commute is there is traffic. But if your commute is under 30 minutes and traffic free - a very doable proposition. I would argue the only setback is when you daily it, the first 5-10 minutes is warm up time for the car, so I keep revs under 4K. It's not very much fun those first few moments. Also, the heater/ac is nothing compared to modern cars, so there's that too.

    It truly is the perfect 'weekend' car in my opinion.

    Cheers
     
  13. Subito Grigio

    Subito Grigio Formula Junior

    Jun 2, 2009
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    I've owned "the Mondial" for 16 years. It is 35 years old. I spend what I must to try to keep ahead of problems always associated with older cars. Yes, the Mondial IS worth the money - in my opinion; but risk is involved.


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  14. alexion

    alexion Formula 3
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    Another realistic comparison by contrast would be comparing the Mondial to an older M car. The E36 and E46 are excellent platforms with die hard followers, many DIY guys, and speciality indy shops - similar experience to Ferrari Mondial ownership. Let's keep E30's and 90's out of the conversation.

    Though I have the aptitude, I probably would not be a DIY for each marquee, and I've considered owning an older M car as a replacement for my Mondial. I've thought that both models are past their depreciation curves and I would be using an indy shop for maintenance. After doing some additional research, M cars require a ton of maintenace and I'm not so sure that owning one would be any less expensive or equally enjoyable as the Mondial.
     
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  15. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Great post, and as much as M cars are truly marvals in their own right, the one thing that I'm sure you don't get is the sounds, feel, and social appreciation I get from the Mondial. The number of thumbs ups, smiles, photos, and Ferrari sanctions events have been glorious. Sure, an M3 could run circles around me on the street but, my basking in the experience makes me happy if an M3 owner takes satisfaction if they decide to race by themselves down the block and 'beat me'.

    Enjoy your win? I know I am.

    :)
     
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  16. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

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    Not sure you are correct in your assumption.

    I DO own an M car (E39 M5) and maintenance has not been bad at all. The one thing to remember is that the BMW gets a lot of its good ride and handling from rubber bushings which do have a useful life. So that can add some $$$ to maintenance. But if I ignore all the modifications ( $$$$ ;)), my expenses have been less than my Mondial.

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
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  17. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    My dad had a 96 m3 that went 315,000 miles and he didn’t maintain it at all other than oil changes. The suspension was completely ragged but it still ran great.
     
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  18. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Yes, from talking to friends - the 80 and 90 BMWs and Mercedes were generally much better built than today. I don't know if this is just nostalgia, but these guys swear by it, so I tend to believe them.
     

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