308 engine refurbishment - should I? | FerrariChat

308 engine refurbishment - should I?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ashie, Apr 22, 2018.

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  1. ashie

    ashie Rookie

    Aug 26, 2015
    14
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Greg Ashe
    Hi all,

    I've had my 308QV for three years. It has a problem that is, I think, increasingly pressing, along with a number of minor items that all seem to be pointing me towards removing the engine. I'm just not sure when/how urgent it is and would appreciate some opinions.

    On startup, a considerable amount of water spits from the exhaust. This is not just your regular water vapour in the muffler build-up. It will even happen on a hot day after having been left a couple of hours since previous start. It is consuming quite a bit of water too - about 400ml per 100km.

    This makes me think that water is finding its way into the combustion chambers.

    Also, coolant in reservoir is becoming increasingly milky. However, there is no trace of milkiness in the engine oil.

    I suspected head gasket/s but someone who knows was adamant that it won't be that, it will be corrosion of cylinder liners where o-rings will have perished. That doesn't make sense to me because my understanding is that that would be at the bottom of the liners and any water getting through there would be making its way to the sump and NOT making its way to the combustion chambers - the opposite of my problem.

    The other scary thing this person told me is that I will have a nightmare-ish time separating heads from block on an engine that has never before been disassembled. Heads welding themselves to studs.

    The other issues I have are cam belts that, although appearing healthy, are long overdue for a change in terms of years; valve clearances seem to never have been checked/adjusted; air-con unit is making noise and doesn't work effectively anyway; and it's probably time for a clutch change.

    All these things seem to be adding up to engine removal as, whilst I have plenty of work space, I don't have a hoist so I think that engine-out would be the way to go.

    I'm simply asking for forum members to provide any opinions they may have on any of the above so that I can start making some choices about what to do and how urgent I think it is.

    Because, alternatively, I have a Fiat race car sitting next to the Ferrari that needs some development $$ and time spent on it :) Fiat is fun but Ferrari has top priority in terms of custodianship of the marque!

    Thanks in anticipation!!
     
  2. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,321
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    I pulled and rebuilt my motor and differential along with all the (while you're in there items) Now i just drive and enjoy it. Just saying...
     
  3. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,282
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    Greg you might want to spend some time in the 308 section and take a look at some of the technical stickies - you should find many of your concerns answered
     
  4. scowman

    scowman Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,479
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Stu Boogie
    Easy to test the motor with compression and leak down
     
  5. ashie

    ashie Rookie

    Aug 26, 2015
    14
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Greg Ashe
    Thanks, Gents. I will go scrounging around in the 308 section then.

    Wow - you guys are very different to the Fiat forums where EVERYONE has an opinion ad nauseum :)

    Cheers
    Greg
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
    socal
    Research proper diagnosis going in with no preconceptions. Things to consider, leak down, compression, vacuum tests, and oil and or coolant sampling tests. In the USA there is Blackstone labs. I'm sure you have equivalent there. Those sampling tests are universally done all over the world. They look for coolant in oil , fuel in oil, particulates etc etc. Those tests mentioned are good baseline data even if all you do is general service. They save a lot of guessing.
     
  7. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,114
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    A check of the spark plugs should show any cylinder that is burning coolant. It usually looks cleaner from what is close to being steam cleaned on start up.
    You can also pressure test the cooling system while the engine is cold, with the spark plugs out. Spin it over and see what comes out of the plug hole. If it is coolant, than the engine comes out for repair. While I agree that head gasket to cylinder failure is not at the top of my list, I never rule out anything. After all these years working on Ferraris, nothing surprises me. It could be anything at this point.
    Keep us up to date on what you find. It may be another " wow, haven't seen that before" moment.
     
    Cirorsi and 308 milano like this.
  8. scowman

    scowman Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,479
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Stu Boogie
    Ask us what the best oil is.
     
    Cirorsi likes this.
  9. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,114
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams

    DON'T DO IT ! IT'S A TRAP !! o_O
     
    tomberlin likes this.
  10. scowman

    scowman Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,479
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Stu Boogie
    My favorite is Walmart 10-40
     
  11. Squirrelmonkey

    Squirrelmonkey Karting

    Dec 27, 2010
    126
    Manitoba ,Canada
    Full Name:
    Tom Thieme
    From the symptoms you describe I'm pretty sure the head gasket is leaking. . its only a matter of time when you will start to see water in the oil. when its got to that point you can kiss your engine bearings good bye too. now your looking at a complete tear down of the engine. That's where its getting expensive.you can change the head gaskets in situe without pulling the engine entirely. Just having to tilt the front bank up. The belts have to come off anyways so that's the time to change them as well as the tensioner bearings too. Feeding plenty of 3/8" poly rope down 2 spark plug holes then then pulling over the engine back and fourth does often break stubourn heads loose.
     
  12. Keith360

    Keith360 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2015
    570
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Keith Williams
    I don’t think I would be driving or starting it. Hydraulic lock in the combustion chamber bends rods.

    Hahhhhhh! Singer Sewing Machine oil is the best.
     

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