P1 Market crashing?

Joey I know you've been saying this a while and maybe for the vintage cars made in huge numbers the obsolescence of the combustion engine will matter but for truly rare cars I think most would consider them as art or appreciate their rarity. The younger generation appreciates these cars more than people think and it's not all 78 year olds at shows

 

I would prefer a driverless car for regular commuting. I deal with too many idiots on roads both as a fellow commuting driver and as a pedestrian crossing streets when I'm suppose to while still almost getting hit in both situations. A lot of people are idiots and are better off having the car drive for them. I rather use my manual transmission sports car for weekend spirited driving and not deal with idiots in traffic.

 

Starting with big trucks...

Batteries have come a HUGE way. But I don’t see how we don’t run out of lithium a long, long time before we run out of oil.

 

It's just a separate company, Lazante Motorsport, that wanted to make the GTR road legal, so they worked with Mclaren and only made 5 of them.

 

the p1 lm is the only one I'd be interested in, the p1 is as mentioned is too close to the 720

 

So by this standard, nobody wants an F50 because it is out of warranty and only a slight performance increase over a 488?

 

except the P1 looks way better...


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488 would destroy an F50 it wouldnt even be close

Hagerty sums it up quite succinctly:

“In some ways, the thrill is gone as far as seven-figure cars go,” remarked Dave Kinney, publisher of Hagerty Price Guide

 

I like the way the P1 looks. I think its problem isn't that there are newer cars that are faster but that it's mechanically too similar to the rest of the range. The 918 has a bespoke engine, exhaust, etc. Same mostly applies to the LaF. If I'm not mistaken the P1 has the same basic engine as the rest of the McLaren line so it just doesn't come across as quite as special. All relative though, I'm sure it's a terrific car...

 

The LaFerrari engine is mechanically the same as the FF, F12, TDF and now 812. The P1's engine isn't shared with anything (P1 runs lower compression and higher boost). Just saying.

 

For me the similarity of a mid-engine V8 P1 in the lineup McLaren offers is too similar. Ferrari doesn't have any other mid-engine V12 other than their supercars even if the blocks are the same as the V12 GTs.

 

I think the problem with the P1 is the battery technology and specifically how rapidly that technology is evolving. There is no virtue in the appearance of a battery or electric motor--the only virtue is in it's output stats. IE mechanical watch vs quartz.

Another analogy, kind of like a CD player. When they first came out everyone wanted them. They were expensive but 10 years after..nobody wants a 10 year old CD player. Hybrid tech will get better and better and the deliverables from it are power with increasingly lower weight and efficiency with even lower cost. Not "feel" or sound.

Contrast to petrol engines. The sound of a 60s v12, a screaming Scud or CS or 599 GTO is just as spine tingling now (or year X) as it was the day it was released from the factory. Further these cars are relatively simple and will be easy to maintain. For a very long time. On top of that newer evolutions of the petrol cars are closer on the spectrum to variation rather than outright superior replacement as in the hybrid cars.

Specifically for the P1, in 10 years what is going to be a more satisfying ownership experience? Firing up a fire breathing monster for a Sunday morning drive through the canyon or pushing the power button on an electric hybrid with ageing electronics and batteries? In the prior case you can go through the gears and hear that petrol engine scream. In the latter you can drive it moderately (it is far too fast!) And hope the ageing electronics still work properly and those batteries still hold a charge.

To the P1s credit it still represents a pinnacle (top 3 at least) at one point in time and that will have value. The car itself, along with the other three, is just not as timeless as the non battery cars that came before. CGT, F50, Enzo, F40 etc.

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Forgot to mention something else specific to the P1. Owners of the current model will very likely easily be able to get allocation for the next version. There may be a little selling in anticipation of the next version of the top level hybrid tech ultimate series.

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Well no, I think that’s apples and oranges. And a 488 would demolish an F50.

 

What are you talking about? You talk as if the P1 is an electric vehicle only.

No better sound for a driver of a car then a car with a roof scoop. Those swooshes and the sound when you left off the accelerator are better then any sound of any other car. Other cars that sound good you have to get into the higher RPM range where you will hardly get to in normal driving. The sound of N.A. cars mainly please people who are outside the car.

 

People must have thought the same thing about the 288 GTO, engine started from a 308 and was updated in the F40.

 

Sorry to have offended you. "What I am talking about" is the hybrid battery technology which is one of the main selling points of the car and which is a mm from being obsolete with the next round of whiz bang hybrids. Itnis simply a new technology that is in it's steepest phase of development for super sports cars. My argument is that battery and hybrid aspect of the car won't be nearly as cool 5 years from now because it will he surely surpassed in every possible way including non performance aspects like "feel" .

Regarding the sound. Sure it sounds cool, but is it really that different compared to the other series cars that have the basically the same engine or even closer the 675 which is also available with the roof scoop. By "that" I mean 1.5-2M UUSdifferent? Is it really worth 1M more than the replacement or even the Senna?

Not saying the P1 is not differentiated at all. However compared to the differentiation vs say a Carrera GT which has a very special for racing developed V10 and that completely unique chassis relative to the other contemporary (or historical) Porsche series cars.

Again the P1 is fantastic, my argument is not that it is not but rather a reason why prices have been declining recently which I thought was the main question of the OP.

Regarding naturally aspirated, not sure how that is relevant . Most prefer the naturally aspirated sound and some--like you--seem to like the turbo sound. Enutirely subjective. Turbos are relatively mature and there are many collectible classics with them..IE F40..959 etc. Regarding the sound only for people outside the car many would disagree with that...especially our friends that own Stradales (or gt3, 599 etc) who I am sure have plenty of opportunity to redline...


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You should drive one. Car prices are going to fluctuate and many sales aren't even reported. A number of hyper cars don't get sold at auctions because of a high reserve price.

I'm not sure of the particular car that was sold at this auction but I was offered one with similar spec as a distress sale and person needed it off his books ASAP (I'm talking that the transaction had to be closed in 3 days).

In Monterey a 918 was sold at 1.8 even though they were going in the 1.2 to 1.3 range. Somehow, people who were trying to unload 918's were using the 1.8 as the market price. They learned real quickly that it was a one off sale (or more likely IMO a sale that wasn't really a sale to prop up the prices of all 918's).

 

What I am saying has nothing to do with me "driving one" or how good it is to drive. It is a tech argument I don't have a view at all myself of what prices have done over the last month or year..

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Don't try to explain this kind of business with rational technological arguments.

 

They did for a while! For quite a some time many were dismissing the 288 as a souped up 308. I think its value only started to fully reflect its importance and rarity over the last 4-5 years. Not that it was ever cheap but its market value seemed to lag the other ferrari super cars. That said, I think there was also more of a difference between the 288 and the 308 (in particular, 288 was turbo charged, while the 308 was naturally aspirated; all McLarens are turbo V8s) and also there is an appealing, if unrealized, motorsport backstory (the whole Group B thing). Again, I don't mean to be dismissive of the P1. In fact, if someone were to gift me one of the three and i could never sell it, just enjoy it, I think I'd want the P1...

 

galt as exotic said the P1 exhaust noise is more inside the car than out; I have 675 also and the p1 is way louder, almost too loud when you're fully on it. The bigger turbos create a totally different exhaust note, its more throaty like an American V8 but with an 8500 redline. Same reason why the F40 sounds so good (I have one of those too w/ LM pipes). ironically I think the P1 feels to me like the F40 successor, both have similar feel and both are always trying to kill you. Now whether that alone is worth 1MM more than the replacement (which there is none), or the Senna, of course not, but there is a lot more differences than sound between the P1 and the Senna.

with regards to battery tech, the P1's *plan* is to keep the hybrid bits up to date, with the factory offering upgrades as they become available. Hybrid 2 is currently in development for McLaren's $2.3MM BP23, which the hybrid system in that car is substantially lighter, more powerful and more efficient than the P1s. This is tech coming out of Formula E. Hybrid 2 will then be offered to P1 owners for an upgrade cost $$$$.

 

If they can find a way to keep the batteries and tech current agree that would make a huge difference. Especially because that has the potential to reduce weight as well.

Otherwise the new car will not only be better but the old one will have accelerated ageing. Especially given McLaren will probably not make a step backwards in terms of sound and they seemed to have learned alot about making the cars increasingly engaging to drive.

Re the F40, agree sounds fantastic. However I think their is an awfully good argument to make that the CGT is the modern F40. No turbos bit the car is super raw and with minimal driver aids. In fact, given the lawsuits, I don't think Porsche or another large manufacturer would dare to make something like that again.

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I don't have any experience with CGT so can't really comment on that. P1 is super raw and in race mode you have 0 TC although it does have ABS (probably a good thing).

 

And a ton more power than anything else