250 Ferrari GTO vs McLaren F1 | Page 4 | FerrariChat

250 Ferrari GTO vs McLaren F1

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 275GTBSaran, Oct 6, 2017.

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  1. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
    2,128
    UK
    it's priced correctly imo, IIRC it's the only delivery miles F1 in existence
     
  2. Qksilver

    Qksilver F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2005
    4,316
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Joe
    There's a 6th dynamic that's arguable most impactful when you're in the tail of the pricing curve: exclusivity.

    Exclusivity is the intangible category that prices personal emotional value to the buyer, and if you're ultra-mega net worth, the cost-benefit of satisfying an emotional need can add up. Acquiring your dream car, gaining entry to a certain club, competitive/ego needs, notoriety of "winning" a car of this magnitude, etc are all valuable to a person who can pay a premium on conventional "market price" and feel good about the ability to write off that premium if need be. Furthermore, if a buyer drove that car like crazy, it would be a 10K mile McLaren F1, and therefore still worth many millions - so in terms of optics, he wouldn't necessarily appear to be completely irrational.

    So if this car resonates with a $1B guy, the the opportunity is very rare. It is about as exclusive as it gets. And, given the potential buyers, therefore worth exponentially more in my opinion. Whether it makes sense mathematically compared to historic values is not the full view in this supply x demand conversation. Because two passionate $1B guys who want it will not add just $1M in premium...

    -Joe
     
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  3. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    4,417
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Hartley posted a picture sitting in a plane on instagram claiming that he was summoned by "car collecting royalty" to discuss the F1. He might sell it for close to 20 million GBP but I don't think it will fetch the supposed 25 he's asking.

    Seems daft to me, in any case, that the car was never driven.
     
  4. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    It's worth whatever some random super rich person thinks it is at this point so coming up with a fair price is pretty moot (like artwork). I won't be surprised if it ends up in the hands of someone that is rich via the government (think middle east or something similar to Brunei)...they seem to have the funds to buy this and not care how much they bid it up. Yellow also has to also be the only color that the F1 doesn't look good in (imo). It actually looks great in almost every other color including silver which is usually boring.

    According to Tom Hartley Jnr's instagram post, it belonged to the same owner that supposedly didn't buy it as an investment...lol ok. He enjoyed it simply by looking at it in the garage (again, he should've bought a poster or model car). It was periodically turned on a warmed up, but I'm sure the condition can't be like new at this point 20 years later (mechanically speaking). It was in a storage facility in Japan for a long time so I'm not sure how much truth there is to that story. It's not like it was stored at a private residence where one can go in the garage easily from your living room to admire it.

    It's clear the F1 has now been hyped up to the point of being used as an investment vehicle than an actual vehicle, which is the exact opposite of what it was designed for and a pity. It's their money at the end of the day, but I can only hope a true car enthusiast buys it and shares it with us mere mortals by showing it in public. Please don't hide it in a garage again...
     
  5. GHG

    GHG Formula 3

    Jan 29, 2008
    1,882
    Came here to say this. Alternatively, I wonder what kind of pressure the next owner will feel to keep the spec as original as possible. Maybe you want the only brand-new Mac F1 in existence but the sight of yellow makes your eyes bleed. Do you buy it and have MSO completely redo the car? The odometer stays the same, but does the refresh impact the car longterm?
     
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  6. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    I think whoever buys it has more money than they know what to do with. I doubt someone with that level of money would care to keep it the way it is for value alone. I'm just guessing here, but I think the main selling point is the opportunity to buy a car new and actually use for those that missed their chance back in the day. I don't think a selling point is to continue to keep it as a time capsule...that doesn't sound appealing to most people (some exceptions like the original owner). If it is an investment group and not a single individual buying, keeping it original would keep its value up above the other F1s even though its spec isn't great (color as well as trim not being an LM or GT).

    As an example with other M-engine cars, there were a handful of delivery-mile E39 m5s and Z8s sold when they were around 10 years old (M5board user Big Gar was brokering them). The new owners put miles on them like regular cars and thus treated them like they bought it new to use and not to keep as a time capsule.
     
  7. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    I like the colour.
     
  8. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    4,417
    São Paulo, Brazil
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    Mario
    I think it's quite different when a dent in the F1 can cost as much to repair as the brand new 10 year old M5...
     
  9. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    I'm giving relatively recent examples of what people have done when they buy a desirable time capsule car. Buying what many consider the greatest driving car ever, the F1, and not driving it makes no sense. I won't be surprised if #060 gets driven and/or re-painted.

    And to the other user, I like yellow a lot. It looks great on Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Porsches, but not the F1 for some reason.
     
  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    If the colour is not to the liking of the new owner a full repaint by McLaren will not cost a lot in proportion to the purchase price of the car, and it will then be as it last left the McLaren factory, colour changed before being registered and driven by an owner.
     
  11. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    4,417
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    Mario
    After the very public coverage I think that would be a very very hard argument to uphold in matters of value & originality. In this case semantics doesn't go too far...
     
  12. malcolmjl

    malcolmjl Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    129
    los angeles
    Looks like 060 is sold. Anyone have news on final price? Any idea who the new owner is?
     
  13. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    13,609
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    I really can't understand what's all the fuss about the Mclaren, obviously people can buy what they want, for the price they want, but at least to me, it's ridiculous to put at the same price (or similar) a Mclaren and a 250 Tr, or a 290mm, or a 315/335, it's simply absurd. I tell you more, the original "modern" supercar is the f40 (ok, the 288 started before but the f40 was the one who truly started the race to arms). If the F40 would have been built in the same numbers as the Mclaren it would probably be more valuable. In any case, if money was of no consequence, i would no doubt chose the f40 over the Mac.
     
  14. malcolmjl

    malcolmjl Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    129
    los angeles
    I think the reason the F1 has gotten so valuable is because it has been proven to be generations ahead of its time. The F40 was very good but it was improved upon, and surpassed by other cars in its sector within 5 years. The F1 remains the fastest NA car ever produced...25 years later. There have only been a handful of "watershed" cars like that is history, so its in pretty lofty company. Ferrari has had 2 (maybe 3) of those and their prices reflect that importance, the F1 is certainly deserving of its valuation though.
     
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  15. Thomas Quintin

    Thomas Quintin Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2005
    2,041
    Paris France
    Full Name:
    Thomas QUINTIN
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  16. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    I'd guess the new owner is in north UK. On Monday, Tom Hartley Jnr posted a pic of a G550 saying it was one of his clients arriving (imo prob for the F1). Registration is VP-BLW and last flight was out of East Midlands (15 miles from Tom Hartley) to Newcastle later that same day. His next message was F1 sold.
     
  17. malcolmjl

    malcolmjl Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    129
    los angeles
    That's some next level sleuthing, seems like a lot of interest though so who knows if that was the final buyer.
     
  18. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    I just say that based on the next stop. This (and basically every) private jet make trips very regularly with short stops for a variety of reasons including business travel. It's already left that place and gone onto more stops...could've been a simple business meeting for all we know. Hopefully they decide to use it and not hide it in a garage like its previous owner.

    Edit: It did make a stop to Tom Hartley Jnr flying up from the south of France and is now headed back that way. Must be nice lifestyle. ;)
     
  19. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Apparently a law firm (Appleby) in Hamilton, Bermuda that handles a lot of offshore accounts was hacked today. A lot of British companies and high net worth individuals may have all their financials exposed. Hopefully the matter is sorted out quickly to avoid that from spreading. I only mention that because that plane registration is in Bermuda and handled by that law firm. That's the last thing I'll mention on this matter. I don't mention owner names in public anyway for privacy matters even if I did know it.
     
  20. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    The cost of maintaining a McLaren F1.
    <iframe width="332" height="360" src="" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  21. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    Bruce Weiner is very wrong about the engine in the F1 being an off the shelf BMW unit.
     
  22. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    So if Mr Weiner is correct it sounds like the annual service costs of the McLaren F1 are similar to what a full restoration of a 250 GTO would be.
     
  23. TurboTerrificNo9

    Sep 24, 2011
    52
    UK
    This video is nonsense - costs are nothing like mentioned
     
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  24. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    Pleased to hear it.
     
  25. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,826
    I don`t know why all this had been charged to Mr. Weiner.
    A very good friend of mine owns a F1. The car has less than 4,000 km on its clock and goes every year to te factory for inspection etc.
    The fuel cells of his car had been replaced as were the tires. But nothing that had been charged to the owner comes close to the figures mentioned by Mr. Weiner.
     
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