Should Ferrari make authentic replicas of 250 TR, TdF, SWB, GTO, LM and P4 to vintage race? | FerrariChat

Should Ferrari make authentic replicas of 250 TR, TdF, SWB, GTO, LM and P4 to vintage race?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by miurasv, Oct 19, 2017.

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  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    As Jaguar and Aston Martin are making authentic replicas of their most prized cars and the originals are too valuable to race and need to be preserved, should Ferrari follow suit and make a series of replicas so that people can actually see an authentic Ferrari racing in classic racing at Goodwood etc rather than the fake non Ferrari made/modified replicas that we are now seeing?
     
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  2. malcolmjl

    malcolmjl Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    129
    los angeles
    As with all things Ferrari, the "replica" cars would over inflate extremely fast and would quickly suffer the same garage queen fate as the originals. Best thing they can do it create replica crate engines, transmissions, wheels etc. to original spec and provide those consumables to owners of the original cars (do they do this already?). It would make tracking them a bit cheaper and safer while also maintaining the heritage and awe we get from seeing the "real thing." They could build an entire program similar to corsa clienti but around the enzo era competition cars, maybe even with a touring historics series. That would be a popular program I'm sure.
     
  3. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
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    Timo
    ???
    Sounds about right for this forum section.
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,013
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    I am not talking about fake replicas, but authentic replicas made by Ferrari. They would be genuine cars and not fakes. Yes, newly made but 100% exactly as the vintage originals made in period and I feel this is the section to discuss them in, where most of the real vintage experts and enthusiasts frequent, and who can offer their approving or disapproving views about the possibility of Ferrari making them.
     
    tomgt likes this.
  5. stevewak

    stevewak Karting

    Jul 31, 2006
    143
    UK
    100% correct. They'd go into garages or living rooms as static objects because Ferrari would have to sell them for track only - like FXX etc. Not new cars built in 2017. Guessing, a replica SWB might be $1m, a 'Ferrari-approved replica' might be $2m - or $1m plus the overs market premium. Which one would you race? And if Ferrari did a tool-room copy 300bhp SEFAC SWB, how would that fare against 4.0-litre, six-carb replica as raced last month?
     
  6. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    No idea if it might be enforced in some way, but to prevent speculation on the replica it should be linked to the original car - and only available to the owner of this original car who would then be able to race without risking the original.
    If the car is sold to an owner that raises questions because the owner may want to sell the original and the replica separately (also because there might be people wanting to buy only one of the two).
    Perhaps an interesting model would be Ferrari renting the replicas exclusively to owners for definite times, whenever an owner would not want to renew Ferrari would take back the car and possibly refurbish it to match another original car whose owner would want to get a replica.
    I see several advantages in this, replicas would be built only for real amateurs (wanting to go to historic races) and not speculators, it would be completely transparent that the cars are not original, Ferrari could guarantee they are on the other hand exactly similar, and that would be additional business fo Ferrari.
    And I could get royalties for this brilliant idea :) (just joking)
     
  7. stevewak

    stevewak Karting

    Jul 31, 2006
    143
    UK
    I like all of that but it does not get away from the fact that Ferrari would have to make a 100% original car that would be killed by all the 4.7-litre DB4GTs and 330GT-engined SWB and GTOs. They would not like it. Jackie Stewart, Scarfiotti or Innes Ireland in a 250 LM would thrash any Cobra, E-type or GTO. That would not happen today. All the drivers are extremely good, it's the cars.

    The average billionaire in GTO that likes to go racing would want top - competitive - equipment.

    The 'new' DB4 GTs are supposed to be faithful with 3.7-litre engines and proper brakes and suspension. It will be interesting to see the times.
     
  8. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    As part of "enhanced transparency" the manufacturers should lobby to have rules in historic racing preventing improved / updated replicas, at least for one racing category.
    Part of the issue now is that without clarity everything seems to be possible, but I guess the racing authorities could make the following categories with strict controls:
    - original cars only - with proper control one would not see many entries I guess...
    - manufacturers approved replicas, with clear rules forbidding most improvements (maybe a few safety improvements, clearly identified, could be allowed): logically it would become the most popular series
    - fake cars with unlimited mods (more or less what we get today, except that today they are pretending to be original): initially it would recycle the currently competing cars (which may help to get the new rules accepted), but with the new established truthfulness I guess its appeal would gradually fade away.
     
  9. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
    Full Name:
    Dougal
    They do make the wheels https://www.borrani.com/ferrari-wheels/250-gto.html

    In some ways i like this idea, because i wouild like to see more of these cars racing. but i can't help but think if i had an original i would be pissed off.
     
  10. stevewak

    stevewak Karting

    Jul 31, 2006
    143
    UK
    If they tightened up on the rules you'd get 'one car to have' - most likely an American-engined Cobra or Bizzarrini. The racing would become 'one-make' and everyone would then complain about that, 'boring', and events such as Goodwood would see attendances drop. Even keeping them to 289s and no roller rockers, today the US V8s can be tuned with reliability far more than original Ferrari, Aston or Jaguar engines without dramatic increase in displacement (3.8 Jag to 4.5, 3.7 Aston to 4.7+), let alone Carillo rods etc.
     
  11. stevewak

    stevewak Karting

    Jul 31, 2006
    143
    UK
    And whatever you said about your Bizzarrini someone would say it was a fake. Would you want to trash a genuine $1m Cobra?
     
  12. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,799
    Santa Fe, NM
    We can argue all day long about the effects such a line of Ferrari-manufactured cars might have on the vintage racing scene, but the bottom line for me is that real Ferraris are being butchered to make replicas/fakes/tributes/recreations - whatever the term du jour may be - unabated. I was forwarded an ad for a 250GTE body, minus chassis/drivetrain just a few days ago. If Ferrari's making a line (and a fortune) of "certified replicas" helps staunch the rate of cannibalizing 250 GTEs, 330GTs, 330 Americas, etc. for replicas, then I'm for it.
     
  13. stevenwk

    stevenwk F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2007
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    Steve
    No, they shouldn't. Even if I could afford it, I wouldn't want it.
     
  14. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
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    Mario
    No, they should stick to making new cars, both for road and track.

    The whole authentic replica thing is doomed to failure because these cars are fundamentally unsafe and encouraging a nostalgia arms race is probably very low on the priority of the FIA or any sporting organization. Do you see Nike making vintage trainers for "vintage marathons"? Or adidas making vintage leather footballs for the "rich people playing football like the 1950's" league?

    It's a marketing device by Jaguar and Aston Martin to properly launch their high cost service departments - something Ferrari has already done.

    Resting on your laurels is a bad way to promote your brand, and by making new old cars that is exactly what they'd be doing. An old Ferrari is only special because it was made in its day.

    Their focus should be 100% on the future, having learnt from the past.
     
  15. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Dec 19, 2004
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    SF
  16. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    yes, continuations like Jaguar, Lola, Aston would be perfect.
     
  17. IXLR84FUN

    IXLR84FUN Rookie

    Apr 10, 2013
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    Ralph Conner
    I agree with Mersth. There are enough, and always will be enough replicas to satisfy a replica market. The Ferrari of today is a new game, and the old game is over.
     
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  18. Lusso123

    Lusso123 Formula 3
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    Oct 18, 2010
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    Marshall Buck
    +1 .....and NO they should not make any replicas.
     
  19. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran

    Dec 4, 2004
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    Jacques
    In theory a very good idea I think. In reality it probably would never work because as with most things that are replicated there is always going to be a time when someone will think its original so unless these cars have big block lettering on the side saying 'replica/recreation" then no I would say practically this idea would not work.

    Its an interesting question to ask because building a new 250 GTO might not be impossible, nor any other of the cars mentioned in the thread title.

    Would I want to see replica's, definitely not because the provenance of existing cars could be clouded even further.
     
  20. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Replicas do and will exist anyway - I believe putting together a controlled background would be more helpful than wishing they would not exist.
    There are also new tracking possibilities appearing with new technologies, which would make it easier to tell apart replicas from originals; like in many domains a regulated environment helps against dodgy developments, in spite of AND because the regulations allow things that would not exist in an ideal world but that would exist anyway.
     
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  21. -K1-

    -K1- Formula Junior

    Jul 10, 2008
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    Ken
    Intersting to revisit this thread. ICONA was what Ferrari came up with.
     
  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    Icona has ZERO to do with any replicas or fakes.

    Marcel Massini
     
  23. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 17, 2007
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    Alberto
    Authentic Replicas? Sounds like Military Intelligence...

    Regards, Alberto
     
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  24. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    authentic replicas can be built of course, but all over the world you may get problem to register because of new safety and emission regulations. so from the optic it would be possible, but never with the old technic.
     
  25. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Given how unsafe these old race cars are, I doubt any manufacturer would be willing to go here.
     
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