Speciale and 488 thoughts | FerrariChat

Speciale and 488 thoughts

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Lukeylikey, Sep 23, 2017.

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  1. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    #1 Lukeylikey, Sep 23, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
    Drove my Speciale for the first time in a while last night having spent the summer in my 488 Spider, shod with new P Zeros. The differences are quite interesting.

    I spec'd my Speciale with harnesses and I have a feeling that actually makes a big difference to my feeling in the car - both good and bad. The 488 is so easy to use, possibly the awkward harnesses on the Speciale emphasising that. But also, the noise levels and aggressive off-throttle in the Speciale mean that the 488 strikes a better balance for everyday or even more-frequent use. The grip and response from the new P Zero is very strong on the road ( I have grown to dislike the previous version which I have had on a 12C, 911 GTS, FF and various others). The car can do GT duties well but it is not really a GT because the 488's response and performance is just so strong. In Spider form it is simply a brilliant car. I don't care that is nominally slower than a 720, I like its appearance better and I prefer the Ferrari tech and general engineering philosophy. In short, I love it.

    The Speciale though, that still does possess something that the 488 doesn't. Despite the fact that the 488's turbo motor is a revelation in turbo engines, it still doesn't quite have the linearity of the Speciale's engine. Don't get me wrong, there are other n/a engines with less immediate and linear response than the 488, it's just that the Speciale's 4.5 litre n/a engine is electric in terms of feel and response. Its chassis movements have a more intimate feeling than the 488. There are small details that filter through to your backside and it has a way of moving over the road that somehow seems more playful and more engaging. There is a different feeling to its chassis and suspension. The 488 is clearly heavily influenced by the setup on the Speciale and I have no doubt the 488 would prove as quick or very nearly as quick around a track based on chassis alone. But there is a level of transparency to the Speciale chassis that the 488 doesn't quite reach. The off-throttle is so immediate it could almost be described as aggressive. This is tiring around town but when you are fully exploring the outer reaches of its performance, this little detail is bizarrely one of the features that makes driving this car quickly so completely absorbing. On and of throttle applications are crucial to managing weight transfer from front to rear axle depending on if you want more turning or more acceleration, it is a crucial part of going fast safely as we all know, and I have never felt it done better than in this car.

    The Speciale is constantly goading you, possibly because it understands less how to relax compared with the 488 and that car's broader spectrum of ability. I feel 'locked in' to the car and almost part of its engineering. Is it the harnesses that do that? Maybe, but I feel it is more than that. After a while, the noisier interior, the more aggressive drive begins to feel 'normal' and you realise that the suspension is exceptionally well judged and is comfortable, incisive and responsive all at the same time.

    As cars get older, you wonder how they will fare in terms of later, more modern machinery. I don't think the Speciale will be as affected by the normal pattern. Turbo engines will deliver much greater performance in the future, but the Speciale's 600hp is easily enough and the car still feels super quick, even though both the 488 and 720 feel pacier. It just doesn't matter, unless you are racing on a track and you are looking for speed more than feeling.

    In the end, there are good reasons to own both cars and there will be more days I choose the keys to the 488. But the 488 will eventually go, to be replaced with the 812. The Speciale will stay. It is the first car I ordered and spec'd at the factory, it is special to us because of some of the personalisation details we put on it. But it is also speciale as the Italians meant it. It can do some things that may never be repeated in a roadcar and I believe history will recognise this car in the very top echelon of roadcars.
     
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  2. junc

    junc Formula Junior
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    I own both as well and agree with your summary. The transparency of the chassis of the Speciale is astounding. I liked how you describe the off throttle as aggressive. It is really astounding how sudden it feels.

    I didn't realize there was a new P Zero out. Is it that dramatic a change over the previous version?
     
  3. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    Yes, I think so. I have had a few issues with P Zeros getting old and feeling like blocks of wood in colder weather. Haven't been able to compare that yet but the grip and response seems to be much better new v old.
     
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  4. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
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    Agree with your assessment. The Speciale has a sinister way of making you do dumb things on the road. Its almost like there is a little devil sitting on your shoulder when you are in it.
     
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  5. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    Thanks for this detailed review, it's always interesting to get the considerations of an owner.
    The cars compared have very different goals though, so for me it may limit the relevance.
    For instance, personnally I am sure I would prefer a 430 Scuderia to a 458 Spider - but it's actually because I prefer the mission statement of the Scuderia, on the other hand I still believe the 458 is globally a better car than the 430.
    Regarding 488 (GTB, not spider) and 458 Speciale, it was a close call when I chose the 488 (mine is an early one, Ferrari was still delivering the last Speciales when I got it); the 458 Speciale would have been a better financial choice but I am still happy with the 488.
     
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  6. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Every time I drive my Speciale I feel like my body has been plugged into an electrical socket. The instantaneous response creates such an electric driving dynamic, unequaled in any other car I've ever driven. Difficult to fully understand until/unless you drive one -- aggressively!
     
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  7. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Image Unavailable, Please Login I truly believe the Speciale is one of the greatest Ferrari's ever made. It does everything well.
    Achingly beautiful, more than fast enough, sublime chassis, soul-ripping 9k redline NA engine from the Gods!
    Mine...with gold calipers no less.
     
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  8. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    BRAVO!
     
  9. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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  10. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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  11. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    Furka pass area in Switzerland - one of my favourite mountain passes. This was 2015 and the car was new (first big trip). It actually has two 'mates' in the picture, a Rosso Corsa behind and a Giallo hidden from view by the F12. Colour is Rosso Maranello, a three layer paint and we have made some modifications, such as to the stripe. Not really what you would call 'stealth'....

    We had had our cars shipped out to Venice and drove back across the Italian Dolomites, the Swiss Alps, the French Alps and then cross country through France. I remember that day well, I was beginning to really get the measure of the car and the Speciale love was already in full swing. What a nice feeling, driving all that way with great mates and their great cars. Love it!
     
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  12. DavidJames1

    DavidJames1 Formula 3

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    Grigio Titanio with blue carbon
     
  13. PorscheGuy

    PorscheGuy Formula Junior

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    This looks like the one which recently sold from Lamborghini of Dallas?
     
  14. nmcclure

    nmcclure Formula Junior
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    wrong stripe, that said, I wanted that car, and someone beat me to it during the PPI....whoever you are...if you want to make some money, I'll buy it off you!
     
  15. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    LFSC, right? Yep, that was me. Thank you, but I'll be keeping her a good long while.. :)
     
  16. nmcclure

    nmcclure Formula Junior
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    the silverstone Speciale? Did they get you my offer ?
     
  17. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    It is Grigio Ferro. Maybe we're talking about a different car.
     
  18. nmcclure

    nmcclure Formula Junior
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    Yes Sir, different car....they had a silverstone speciale I wanted.
     
  19. SECRET

    SECRET Formula Junior
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    I couldn't agree more. The problem is I want to drive it... everywhere.
     
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  20. Brian L

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    I want a 458 SA very badly ... and then I want to drive it often. Many doubts on that happening but it's a nice dream.

    488 on track last weekend was fun for a few laps, then became very annoying.
     
  21. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    In what way annoying? Comparing 458, F12, Speciale, 488 and 458 Challenge on various occasions at Fiorano and Vairano the 488 did well - I would place it between the 458 and Speciale, better by far than the F12 and quicker lap times than all but the Challenge which was a league ahead of all of them. It was a great track car, except perhaps pedal goes long quite quickly, though powerful braking is still available.
     
  22. Brian L

    Brian L Formula 3

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    #23 Brian L, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
    488 is just not as much fun. Sure it's faster than a 458 but I don't love any turbo. It's more advanced = not as direct. Too much going on, I feel distant from the road.

    The pedal is a touch slower to reply and the power plentiful yet all 4-6k then the top ... and I don't get the feeling, power, sound up top that tells me things I want to experience as in the 458. The turbo feels like the car is floating on air, not pummeling the earth.

    Any gear works in the 488 and that's lame, I want to be very accurate on track, and the 488 seems like a track car for dummies.

    I simply love the 458 in every way. Ok, it's a little short on power, but everything else about it, to me, is amazing. The 488 seems like a GT car, which is cool if you want that, yet not a special car to keep forever, as you said, if you have options.

    I cant help but feel that 488 and Lusso are just not visceral enough and beautiful enough. A bridge too far. I'm smitten with F12B era Ferraris as a pinnacle. And the TDF, sure.
     
  23. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    An interesting thought. I suppose it is true that when I drove all these cars I was looking for lap time - to go as fast as possible and keep my learning process going. If that is the aim, 488 is a better tool than 458, which is not as sweet handling, nor as powerful, nor as tractable. And the 488 gives you a bigger margin for error because it has a higher level of ability.

    If you see trackdays as a way of enjoying a particular car, at its own speed, the 458 could be better for some - that screaming 9k redline is the car's defining feature and is scintillating on the track. I don't really understand the comment about the 488 floating, I didn't feel that at all. I felt the car was a brother to the Speciale more than the 458 in terms of handling. And I can certainly say from telemetry and repeated lap time measurement that any gear really won't do in the 488 - there is a faster way and a slower way, you still have to be accurate, otherwise you lose time easily.

    If you are not looking for outright speed, the 458 has the advantage of a n/a engine but on the track I am still at the stage where I find myself thinking about entry/exit, wheel loadings, car balance and attitude and engine powerband. From inside the car, the sound takes on less importance in my head than it does from outside the car or on the road because I just want that laptime, I get tunnel vision and nothing else seems important in the moment, save what can help me knock a tenth off.

    Having said that, the Speciale is a better track tool than the 488 even though it is not quicker. It is so alive and instant, much more than the 458. Maybe it's not correct but I feel that I could go as quick in a Speciale as a 488 and the noise and response of the Speciale gets every nerve tingling. If your comment above is as compared to the Speciale then I'm probably in the same place, but compared to the 458 Italia I don't feel the same.
     
  24. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    I would globally agree with that, and if the post above refers to the 458 SA as the Speciale Aperta, I would add that to me an open top car (specially without a carbon tub) does not make sense as a (even occasional) track car since it has more weight, higher center of gravity and degraded stiffness.
     

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