Fuse box problem? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Fuse box problem?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by bensonae, May 4, 2017.

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  1. 1TRICK6

    1TRICK6 Karting

    Aug 28, 2014
    159
    So. Cal (L.A./O.C.)
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Last month I paid about $1,900 for DH's fusebox upgrade. Didn't know of the other options at the time. Live & Learn and I'm still trying to stand up straight from getting bent over.
     
  2. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    #27 Melvok, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
    Did you install/use 3 or 4 mm2 copper wiring for the most-consuming circuits ? double size ......

    Fuel pumps (2)
    Radiator fans (2)
    Oil cooling fan (1 even though it rarely turns on)
    A/C condenser fan (1)
     
  3. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    mel
    I never have known that there are 3 mm² wires available, only 2,5 and 4
     
  4. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 22, 2006
    2,232
    Belgium - Europe
    our new board is 650 euro at the moment and there's a waiting list. If you order one now, you'll get it in a couple of months.

    Our cables are 2,5mm because you can still bend these on a small surface. They can conduct much more current than what's needed.

    Forgot to mention 1 extremely important thing: our boards allow customisation. Very handy because some original boards have been customised to fix issues in cars and instead of having to undo customised wiring in the car, you just change the cables on the board.
     
  5. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2008
    2,987
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    Really. Wow. $1,900. I. Guess the price of poker just went up. Holy moly

    R
     
  6. enzo52

    enzo52 Karting

    Aug 14, 2008
    131
    France, Paris
    Full Name:
    Depensadie Seraphin
    From what I have learned over the years there are only a few possibilitys here :

    - Buy a good used OEM, what will fail in time also ;
    - GT parts has a modern board but uses the same little male connectors to put the wires on, wich is weak design, so waiting for meltdown also ...and very $$$$ ;
    - DH scuderia rampante uses the old board but put some wires and some extra relais to bridge problem relais... you pay big $$$$. I realy dont understand people are willing to pay for this option ;
    - there is a board with aircraft design wich I have little information but also $$$$ ;
    - Guido's fuseboard is very solid and very reasonable pricing. Just need to put bigger connectors on the wires and they are turned 90 degrees, so the white plastic connector holders have to be adapted a bit.

    I think the last one is to go...like I did 8 years ago, and without problems since.

    Enzo52
     
  7. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,371
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    #32 theunissenguido, May 10, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Fuseboxes are the same for TR, testarossa and early 512TR. I have no idea from what VIN number the new model whas fit into the 512 TR.
    Picture 1 is my produced old model board 512TR ;
    Picture 2 is the new model OEM board 512TR. See the bigger connectors used !
    The new board I havent yet find the measurments to make one...have ask here if someone has a spare to loan or sell without succes. And with plenty of demands for other boards, I dont find the time neighter to fabric one.
    I put a lot of efforts into to quality so the boards are very reliable. Exept for 1 owner who did not want to use the white plugs again, putting other female connectors on the wires, provocing damage to the solder points. All other boards are working fine.
    When reading the manual on REDBAY site, everyone can put this replacement in his car. No hokuspokus there !

    Guido
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  8. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    Another option is to take away the 4 circuits an give them a powerlead direct from the battery.

    Not very difficult to DIY (or ask a friend) and very effective. Cheap solution.

    Some members hee have done so themselves ....
     
  9. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 22, 2006
    2,232
    Belgium - Europe
    That's a short term solution and doesn't take away the fact that the original board should have been better designed and more troubles will appear every year. But it will help you for a while :) You can always have a look at the installation manual to get a better idea how to change the board, see the manual that's available through this page
     
  10. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 14, 2011
    1,283
    Northeast, USA & Oz
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Alex,
    Did you find the source of your problems?
     
  11. Simba

    Simba Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2006
    779
    New York
    FWIW, I make these. They are somewhat expensive, but they're also hand made using tefzel wire, aircraft breakers, and Deutsch connectors rated at 25 amps per pin. It is slightly overkill, but I typically do them for folk who have tried a couple other fusebox solutions without success, or just want a solution that will last the life of the car.

    The main problems with the stock TR box are heat buildup in the printed circuit design (this is not uncommon-- most "plate" style PCB-ish boxes fail in this way eventually, even from Toyota, et al), and that the pins do not have the capacity that certain circuits require, especially with aging wiring harnesses. The only real fix is to either increase the current capacity of the fuse box circuitry and terminals, or replace the wiring harness.
     
  12. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    I remember I have seen this "aircraft fuse box" here somewhere, but can not find anymore
    can someone post again the photo or a link where to see this?
    I remember those automatic fuses has been 40 years ago in the SLT50/2 ( a tank transporter for leopard 1 ) but I never know where to get those fuses, but also not specially looking for.
     
  13. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
    1,829
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Christian
    I think the take away is there are more options for TR owners than ever. This is a good thing.
     
  14. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 11, 2012
    6,252
    Papineauville, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Claude Laforest
    #39 godabitibi, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/boxers-tr-m/543122-my-new-87-testarossa-3.html
    post 53

    Romano those breakers are Klixon. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/circuitbreakers_klixon.html
     
  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    thank you claude for the 2 links
    very helpfull :)
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    We have been dealing with these since 1985 and in that time have seen many cars operated long term with both approaches and both have proven themselves to be reliable. It was a poor design and in my experience I have seen a few but very few problems relate to the circuit boards themselves. The actual crimped on connector end was stupid. They have shown themselves to be very adequate for the low current circuits but there isn't anything wrong with going either way on those. The 5 circuits we all know about obviously are a problem but neither fix is a bad one. It been a long time, we have a lot of experience with both. Make your choice and be happy to have one.
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,288
    socal
    This is most critical. Power drawn means heat and extra wire capacity needed. If nothing is changed in the box then getting high current stuff off the b ox makes sense. If you use big enough wires which is what I did calculated by my bro an electrical engineer, you can contain everything in the stock box. I have proven that with 5 years of flawless running on my own box. That wire not only needs to be multi strand milspec type stuff but have super tough cladding. The stuff I used was very difficult to strip the cladding off. Use top notch wire from good sources.
     
  18. bensonae

    bensonae Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2013
    284
    Tokyo, Japan
    Full Name:
    Alex Benson
    Ok so my problem did not go away of course. I was hoping to make it to winter before having to diagnose this. So last night about to drive home from the beach. Auto door locks slow to open(happened last time I had this issue) then started up fine running perfectly but parking, dash and rear lights did not come on. Ended up splicing a wire from an empty relay on the fuse panel to the fuse for the rear lights to power them to make it home. Makes me wonder though if that splicing works maybe the fuse box is ok and there is something else bad between the switch and fuse panel? I am an amateur especially when it comes to electronics. Considering removing the panel and sending it to GTparts to be refurbished but could there also be another issue? Another relay or fuse somewhere?
    Thanks again
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Not really sounding like a fuse panel issue to me.
     
  20. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,035
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    +1 -- certainly not the typical fuse-relay panel issues.

    OP - Since you are losing so many functions at the same time, one relatively easy thing to do would be to ensure that the connection to the stud on the positive battery terminal held by nut 23 is clean/tight, things aren't corroded, etc.:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    (as well as the battery terminal to battery post connection itself). AFAIK those two cables held by nut 23 onto the battery terminal stud are what go to run everything on the fuse-relay panel, and wouldn't hurt to unplug/inspect/reseat where those two cables connect to the fuse-relay panel at the 2-pin connector k. Just a thought...
     
  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Or an ignition switch output or a multil system relay function, usually called "Key Controlled Services".
     
  22. bensonae

    bensonae Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2013
    284
    Tokyo, Japan
    Full Name:
    Alex Benson
    Are there any relays I can check? I'll check the battery connections tonight.
     
  23. bensonae

    bensonae Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2013
    284
    Tokyo, Japan
    Full Name:
    Alex Benson
    what is the "key controlled services" relay for? I ordered a few replacement relays seeing as they are not too costly.
     
  24. bensonae

    bensonae Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2013
    284
    Tokyo, Japan
    Full Name:
    Alex Benson
    In Japan struggling to find Bosch 0332015013 relay is there a new part number?
     
  25. bensonae

    bensonae Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2013
    284
    Tokyo, Japan
    Full Name:
    Alex Benson
    Ok wow I am confused. i downloaded the service manual and it calls for the S relay labeled "Key Controlled Services" as Bosch 0332014113. I have an image of my fuse panel and it has 0332015013 with one distinct difference the one with the 14 in it is marked 30A versus the ones I have marked 2x15A. Now I really do not know what I need to get any help much appreciated.
     

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