360 F1 pump on 355 F1?

No way the pump is drawing 30 amps if the motor is good. 12V x 30 A = 360W = 1/2 HP. Motors are typically at least 50% efficient or more, so 1/4 HP output. Here is a picture of a 12 V, (28A peak) 1/4 HP DC motor. For reference, the body is 7" long, about 4" in diameter. The exposed shaft is 16mm diameter, 1.85" long. You could get a rough estimate of the HP of the F1 motor by scaling based on volume of the motor. So what's a 355 motor? 2" in diameter, 2" long? That would place it at about 0.02 HP which would pull about 2.5 A.
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I know what options my customers will be offered as a fix......

 

John when I messured mine pressuring up it would pull about 7 or 8 amps but when I am shifting gears it will pull up to 14 amp. This is from memory but is close. I posted about a year ago the exact numbers but the shift on mine that pulls the most is from first to second I believe.

What would make good common sense to me is that the better mechanically your transmission is the easier the shifts. If parts are worn or damaged higher amps would seem likely.

 

Power in = 8 A x 12 V = 96W = .12 HP. 50% efficiency = .06 HP output. I would bet your 14 A figure is the surge current you see when the motor switches on. With a DC motor the starting current, unless otherwise limited, is just I = Vapplied/Ra, or I = 12/Ra where Ra is the dc resistance of the armature. The current drops as the rpm rises do to the back EMF (voltage) generates in the motor which counters the applied voltage. Below is a typical (ideal) DC motor curve. As you can see, current draw is a linear function of RPM, as is torque. HP is proportional to torque time rpm. If max power corresponds to 8A, 50% efficiency, 14A would be around 90% of max current, maybe 25% of max power, and around 10% efficiency. It's probably the intermittent, sequential duty cycle these motors see, with the large starting currents, that results in their failure.
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Guys I'm really interested about finding a suitable replacement motor and necessary adapter(s) for the pump system. I'm confident I know the right people who can make it happen. I just need the exact spec of the motor. Better yet a bad motor. Even better the whole pump assembly. Does anyone have one laying around?

 

I think your right on. That was kinda what I was trying to describe. The pumps worst case is when shifting gears at the same time the pressure drops enough in the accumulator that it kicks in. I was trying to get the largest amount of amps because I was trying to figure out why my fuse wold blow randomly.

What I found was that a poor connection at the pump plug was likely loose and once I changed it pobablem has not come up now for over a year.

I think it would be possible if mechanically the transmission semi locked up that it could go higher but thats just a guess.

 

So Dave,

I posted a new thread about my 355 Gearbox (or pump) is shot. How much to replace with a 360 gearbox and pump? Or, is the 355 a separate pump (which I think is gone).

Thanks

Bob

 

+355

 

Dave,
Have you worked out your pump swap process yet ?

Thanks,

Skipp

 

The motor.....thanks for clarification

 

I have developed an alternative motor replacement. Send me a PM if interested.

 

I have Jury's new upgraded pump on my desk. it is a beast compared to the OEM one sitting next to it.

Same diam but about 1" longer. Juri's pump is 3 lbs. The OEM one is 2 lbs. Can not wait to install this thing.

This is it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/F1-Pump-Electric-Motor-for-Ferrari-360-430-Lamborghini-E-Gear-/252259591345?hash=item3abbd7e4b1:g:LLcAAOSwgQ9V0Rgs&vxp=mtr

 

Juri has a new motor that bolts in. i am installing it today but I think it is wired backwards will check. If it works you should contact him. Sorry it will work , just need to confirm pump direction.

Its a bolt in direct solution.

 

You guys ever think of a Geartronics shift system? I'm sure it can be made to work with the 355 trans
Thinking of it for my next project with a sequential box.

 

Installed and works perfect so far.

 

Pic of old motor
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Coupling old motor
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New motor from Juri
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I would just like to thank Yuri for his solution which was basically plug and play.

The process was
Remove airbox
Remove rear wheel and wheel well liner
Loosen F1 nuts on bracket 2
Slide F1 unit up and off bracket
Remove two hex bolts holding in old motor
Remove motor
Install a 1/4 inch rubber spacer between rubber mount and F1 unit bottom post

This lifts the pump and motor assembly about 1/4 inch

Bolt in new motor with supplied hex bolts

Reinstall everything

Took about 1.5 hrs with a few breaks etc.