1959/1960 Comp Engine build sheets? | FerrariChat

1959/1960 Comp Engine build sheets?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by freestone, Nov 13, 2016.

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  1. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    #1 freestone, Nov 13, 2016
    Does anyone have build sheets for comp engines in the 1959 to 1960 time period, which would cover the SWB, Cal Spyder, and late TdF's?

    Especially from the first months of 1960?

    Thank you.
     
  2. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,034
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #2 miurasv, Nov 13, 2016
    There is a copy of the engine build sheet of the 1960 (August) Rob Walker/Stirling Moss 250GT SWB Competizione in Doug Nye's book on 2119GT.
     
  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,034
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #3 miurasv, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
    See the Gooding links below for the build sheets of 250 GT SWB Comp. 1759GT dated March 1960.

    http://central.goodingco.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/749_PB16_1960-Ferrari-250-GT_SWB-Comp-60_1759-G_-Build-Sheets-1.jpg

    http://central.goodingco.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/749_PB16_1960-Ferrari-250-GT_SWB-Comp-60_1759-G_-Build-Sheets-3.jpg

    I wouldn't rely on these covering all models as the only 250GT SWB California Spyder Competizione car with the tipo 168B engine that I can find is 2015GT.

    Actually you can't rely on any build sheet, even of the same model to cover a different car/chassis number.

    LWB Cal Spyder Competizione 1603GT is said to have a full comp spec engine the same as a SWB Berlinetta but its tipo is said to be 168, not 168B.
     
  4. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    #4 freestone, Nov 13, 2016
    Thank you so much. I will look at Nye's book when it arrives.

    The build sheet on my 128f is very very close to 1759gt it appears. The only difference is 9.6 vs 9.9 compression, and the cylinder heads.

    Crank,cam,pistons,valves, carbs, timing etc are the same.

    Was 1759gt set up for sustained high speed like LeMans with that compression? 9.9 is really high. Mine is 9.6 which seems high.

    I would be interested in knowing for comp engines why they decided to build them differently, based on which use.

    To confirm, "canne trione perliche" with regards to the cylinder heads is?
     
  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,034
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #5 miurasv, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
    1759GT's first race was for NART at Le Mans 1960.

    I don't know what "canne trione perlitiche" means. Hopefully Marcel or Dyke Ridgley (DWR46) will chime in.

    What car/model do you have if you don't mind me asking? Does it have tipo 130 cams with 10mm lift?
     
  6. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    #6 freestone, Nov 14, 2016
    Yes, the 130 with 10 mm lift.
     
  7. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    #7 miurasv, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    #8 freestone, Nov 14, 2016
    Awesome. Thanks! Do you have the link to the Spyder's chassis build sheet as well? All the four build pages?
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    #9 miurasv, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,034
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    Steven Robertson
    #10 miurasv, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  11. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
    1,111
    London
    Full Name:
    Kim
    #11 Enigma Racing, Nov 15, 2016
    Has anyone ever attempted a translation of the build sheets and an explanation of numbering system ?
     
  12. Dustin Wetmore

    Dustin Wetmore Karting

    Mar 31, 2011
    73
    Neenah, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Dustin Wetmore
    #12 Dustin Wetmore, Nov 15, 2016
    Interested individuals (or their seconds) have assembled "templates" then input the data as it becomes understood.

    Speaking only for myself, I found it to be a "crawl then walk" scenario. I would raid Wayne's file cabinet in search of a chassis number close to the vehicle in question. I would then translate line per line with an English/Italian dictionary as the data was needed. Flash forward ten years, I simply read them now. I imagine most who've studied them with some frequency get to this point. Now combine with reading various accepted texts, you become able to further understand the material. The numbers have a greater meaning.

    I would expect this to be a matter of personal preference.

    Some years ago we took a project on which the previous owner had visited the factory (1959) and was allowed to hand transcribe his assembly sheets from the originals. This was before copy machines of course.

    Others could testify to then being a different time indeed.
     
  13. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    #13 freestone, Nov 15, 2016
    I would like to see a non comp build sheet from the same time period of late 1959/early1960

    It would be interesting also to isolate the differences between comp engines to see what they were built for.

    And as to Dustin's post above, why for example certain fuel pumps etc.

    A comprehensive database or book would be something i would be interested in.
     
  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,034
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #14 miurasv, Nov 15, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
    George M Carrick's 2007 reprinted book, The Spyder California, A Ferrari of Particular Distinction has build sheets for 0929GT, 1641GT, 1715GT and 4121GT. It also contains engine specifications of a number of different LWB and SWB Californias. I'd also get the original 1976 book as the pictures and text are printed in higher quality.
     

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