RobzWorkz #2: Shifter / shift shaft improvement | Page 4 | FerrariChat

RobzWorkz #2: Shifter / shift shaft improvement

Discussion in '308/328' started by Robz328, Apr 30, 2010.

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  1. peterdavid911

    peterdavid911 Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2012
    1,339
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Thanks to you all so much!

    I am taking it to Ferrari on Saturday morning to take a look. They changed my shift shaft seals and clutch slave cylinder a few months ago and was great when I got it back. The clutch slave cylinder is from Superformance and therefore not original Ferrari part which I supplied to be fitted and will interesting if it's failed. Mark, it sounds like clutch drag and I will update after inspecting it on the lift with them.

    Happy driving everyone:)
     
  2. peterdavid911

    peterdavid911 Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2012
    1,339
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Ok guys so the results are in!

    This morning I took the car to Ferrari to finally find out what the problem is.

    When I started the car from cold it would not go in any gear at all. I had to push it out of the garage. I let it warm up for a while and would not go in 1st, 2nd or 3rd. 4th and 5th needed too much force. The clutch pedal had no resistance at all as I pushed the pedal down. Finally I managed to get it in 3rd and pulled off and when I was finally able to change gear it would pop out as I slid the shifter. The drive there was terrible.

    Finally I arrived at Ferrari main agent where I always take it. First thing they tested was to press the clutch pedal and straight away they could tell there was air in the system as it was just too soft. They pumped the clutch pedal continuously and it fixed the soft pedal and firmed up to how it should be. I had such a low biting point on the clutch and I only had to lift a millimeter and it would move off. Now the biting point was higher as it used to be.

    They put it on the lift for a full inspection of any leaks from the clutch slave cylinder which was changed only 6 months ago and also checked the slave cylinder and both were perfectly dry, no leaks there and the fluid reservoir was full.

    They bled the clutch with a vacuum system to ensure any small bubbles came out. It was taken for a test drive and all was ok. I drove it home and felt like a different car, back to how it should be and was perfect all the way.

    The service and attention from Ferrari was amazing as always and willing to help even though it was limited Saturday staff at short notice.

    So there you go. No silent block bushes to change, no gear linkage or forks to adjust, no new clutch and no cylinders or parts at all. Just a few bubbles of air causing me all this grief.

    I will keep an eye on it and if it happens again then I know it's time to change the master cylinder as the rubber seals are probably letting air in.

    Thanks to everyone and hopefully we have all learned something together.

    Peter
     
  3. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    55,828
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
    Full Name:
    Mark W.R.
    GREAT !!!!!!! :)



    But you just postponed the inevetable. ;)
     
  4. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 28, 2012
    1,753
    Shreveport, LA
    umm.. I am a bit of a "negative Nancy" here but bubbles just don't get into a system. Especially if it was fine and then went off. The lack of fluid leaking could mean that you have an internal leak where the fluid bypasses the seals and the result is that you lose function but not fluid. That said, I haven't seen a seal setup on a Ferrari clutch master or slave cylinder so even though I have had this experience in other cars it may not be possible on this one.

    But bubbles just don't get in to hydraulic systems without a problem, even though they might get into a Ferrari after only one or two drinks..

    Lester
    Who once nick named his lab co-workers "Trixie" and "Bubbles" after a Bob Newhart routine (They were both named Gail.)
     
  5. peterdavid911

    peterdavid911 Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2012
    1,339
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Peter
    It could be that the master cylinder is on its last legs. The slave cylinder is new and as you said I also think it's internal leak as everything was dry when inspected.

    I'll see how it goes over the next few weeks and if it happens again I will change the master cylinder. I doubt it could be anything else.

    It runs great now, exactly as it should.:)
     
  6. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 16, 2009
    6,290
    ATL, Georgia
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    Rob Hemphill
    I haven't worked with the Mondial clutch/slave cylinder system. Can this be correlated to a breaking system, where bleeding can be done? Does a special tool need to be used?
     
  7. peterdavid911

    peterdavid911 Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2012
    1,339
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Hi Rob,

    Good question! On the 328 and my Mondial 3.2 which share the same engine and running gear there is only 1 reservoir that shares both the clutch fluid and brake fluid but from what I understand you have to bleed them individually as they run separately.

    I believe there are 2 reservoirs on the 308 and 3.0 Mondial, 1 for the clutch and 1 for the brake fluid. I'm sure I will be corrected here if I'm wrong.

    Have you fixed the problem yet?
     
  8. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2006
    4,078
    San Jose area
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    Brian Harper
    I don't know when the Mondial started with a hydraulic clutch (right from the first Mondial maybe?) but all 308s came with a cable for the clutch.
     
  9. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 16, 2009
    6,290
    ATL, Georgia
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    Rob Hemphill
    My 328 is cable control only. I don't have a problem at the moment.

    Can I assume that clutch fluid is brake fluid? Can heat be an issue like with brakes?
     
  10. shaundarbie

    shaundarbie Rookie

    Nov 30, 2011
    33
    Twin Cities, MN
    Big thank you for this thread and to Verrell for his additional help. The shifter alignment was off, wouldn't go into reverse, but I just did this procedure on '83 QV and it worked beautifully. I replaced the shift linkage bushings with Verrell's bushings plus the quad seals for the shift shaft. I had to have the old shift bushings pressed out and also had to file a bit of a taper on the end of the shaft to get it through the quad seals, and that dipstick was a royal pain, but we did it.
     
  11. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,050
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Henry
    I need to read through this whole thread...I've been needing to do my shift shaft seals for quite a while now.
     
  12. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    291
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    I tried this adjustment as 4th and 5th are slightly more difficult to engage than the other gears, but when I tried to undo the selector shaft adjustment it was like the lock nuts had been glued in place. I tried the nuts in both directions as its difficult to see which direction the two threads run (i don't have a lift and light under the car is quite bad). Can someone confirm which of these two lock nuts are left and right hand thread?, so at least next time I try this adjustment I'm sure to be trying in the right direction?
     
  13. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Veteran
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    Jan 3, 2012
    6,270
    Kahuku / Cottonwood / Prescott
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    Will
    #88 Hannibal308, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The shifter is a fun and easy project...great thread. The only thing I don't recall seeing anywhere was instructions on how to remove the reverse lockout bushing. I used the same technique to both remove it and in replacing it: I used two short lengths of insulated 14G solid copper wire to make loops around the spring to act as a spring compressor. By twisting the loops to compress the spring, the bushing is now accessible for replacement.

    Hope this helps someone.

    Ciao!

    Hannibal
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    moysiuan likes this.
  14. Hannibal308

    Hannibal308 F1 Veteran
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    Jan 3, 2012
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    Kahuku / Cottonwood / Prescott
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    Will
    #89 Hannibal308, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. oneconnoisseur

    Jul 24, 2014
    25
    NorCal
    Full Name:
    Doug
    After trying to read the adjustment section of installing the shift shaft, I was pretty confused without a visual so I added this video to illustrate the gearbox selections.

    Good luck, hope it helps.

    http://youtu.be/9Pir33desdE
     
  16. hyenahf

    hyenahf F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2004
    2,603
    328's have hydraulic clutches?... That's news to me
     
  17. Jakuzzi

    Jakuzzi Formula 3

    Mar 26, 2005
    2,072
    PR, TX, GV
    Full Name:
    Jaime
    :)
     
  18. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2010
    971
    Greenville, NC
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Anyone have an image of how the ball and springs that go in before reassembling the transmission pan? Mine fell out when the pan popped loose. The thread says the balls go up into the holes first but mine appeared to be on the bottom of the springs towards the cover? Can someone confirm?

    Finally, the solid spacer, I assume it goes into the circular holes drilled into the pan closest to the front of the car? I just want to get it back in correctly so I don't have to pull it apart again.
     
  19. 308ROB

    308ROB Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 14, 2004
    882
    Netherlands
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    Rob
    #94 308ROB, Sep 18, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2010
    971
    Greenville, NC
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    Jim
    That's great. Thanks. Does the sold round piece go into the extended cylinder attached to the plate?
     
  21. jim94-348

    jim94-348 Formula Junior
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2010
    971
    Greenville, NC
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    Jim
    Never mind. Only one place it fits. Anyone know the purpose of putting the cavity in the cover and then inserting the solid cylindrical piece that appears to be about flush with the lip? Just curious. Also, I don't have the tool to put them in place to set the shifter. Anyone have a picture of whatever they made to simulate the cover positions for the balls and springs in the setup procedure? No sense in reinventing the wheel.
     
  22. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
    3,257
    UK
    The trick to re-assembling these is a small blob of ordinary grease in each hole in the transmission case, it will hold the balls, the springs and the one spacer in place so that you can refit the pan underneath them.
     
  23. Alfer

    Alfer Formula 3

    Sep 4, 2007
    1,346
    NH/the Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Menno
    #98 Alfer, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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