348 Code 1123 Secondary Air Solenoid Relay. Yes I searched | FerrariChat
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348 Code 1123 Secondary Air Solenoid Relay. Yes I searched

Discussion in '348/355' started by carwhisperer, Mar 13, 2015.

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  1. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #1 carwhisperer, Mar 13, 2015
    I have error code 1123 on bank 5-8. I have seen on my348.com that it is Secondary Air Solenoid Relay. I haven't been able to find anything about it after searching FC. I see it listed but can't see that anyone else has had to address it before. I read the names of all of the bonnet and footwell relays and none of them look like they could be it. Does anyone know where to look for this relay?

    Note that this is not 2123 which would be for the valve itself.
    Brian
     
  2. dahveedem

    dahveedem Formula 3

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    #2 dahveedem, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I did a quick search through the workshop manual. I think it's located under the passenger foot well but I can't be sure. Nothing came up on the interwebs either.. you would think someone would have had this previously.

    Also.. on page 117 there was a mention of a relay here.. but the darn thing is so confusing I'm not sure if it's related. See pic.

    Maybe check your ECU connections and make sure they are clean?

    If I stumble across anything else I'll forward.... my search skills are WEAK today!

    Good luck.
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  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #3 yelcab, Mar 14, 2015
    Bank 5-8 is relay D
    Bank 1-4 is relay I

    Both are at the foot well of the passenger
     
  4. dahveedem

    dahveedem Formula 3

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    #4 dahveedem, Mar 14, 2015
    Thanks yelcab!
     
  5. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #5 carwhisperer, Mar 15, 2015
    Thanks for the help yelcab. I tried switching D and I and I still have 1123 on 5-8 and nothing on 1-4. The label for that relay is L.H. Injector Control. I know relays often do more than one thing but I think the car won't run without those relays. So I suppose it is not the relay and likely something else in the circuit. Would that be fair to assume?

    BTW, I have successfully cleared other codes so apparently I do know how to clear them.

    Brian
     
  6. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 ernie, Mar 15, 2015
    It's my understanding that the secondary air relay is activated during initial warm up.

    Do you hear the "growl" coming from the quarter windows when you first start the engine? Does the "growl" go away after a few minutes of the engine warming up?

    If either of those don't occure I would try swapping the suspect relay with the relay on the 1/4 bank and see if the code jumps sides.
     
  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 ernie, Mar 15, 2015
    That's the the relay for the intake compensation valve.
     
  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #8 yelcab, Mar 15, 2015
    Those relays feed power to the secondary air valve, plus a bunch of other things. So, 1123 is some other problem.
     
  9. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #9 carwhisperer, Mar 16, 2015
    I certainly didn't hear any growl from the quarter windows as this is a 95 spider with the top always down :)
    Seriously, though, I don't think I know what growl you mean. When I start my car the idle is always a little hight but then it settles back down right away. I swapped the solenoid valves that dahveedem circled in the picture above left to right and got no change in the code.

    However, 2123 is the secondary air injection valve itself. Wouldn't these valves need their own relays so they can be opened/closed independently of other components? What do all the relays do in the front bonnet by the AC hidden fuse? Do they have a label nearby?
     
  10. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #10 yelcab, Mar 16, 2015
    The relay feeds constant 12V power to one side of the valve. The ECU grounds the other side of the valve when it wants the valve to turn on. That is how it works.
     
  11. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #11 carwhisperer, Mar 16, 2015
    OK I get it now. That makes sense. I will see if they are getting 12V+. Would it be with just the key on or does the engine need to be running?
     
  12. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #12 yelcab, Mar 16, 2015
    Key on.
     
  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 ernie, Mar 17, 2015
    I need to correct that statement, it's the solenoid.
     
  14. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #14 carwhisperer, Mar 23, 2015
    Hey Yelcab and Ernie, thanks for trying to help. I did some more studying of the WSM diagram, which, I should point out, is for 1991 cars and mine is a 95. Most of it seems the same but a couple of the wires colors don't seem to match up. That being said I am pretty certain that the air injection solenoid circuit works like this. It shares a common ground with the O2 sensor, grounded all the time. Power comes from footwell relay d (injectors 5-8) to energize relay c(fuel pump 5-8). This relay then sends power to the air injection solenoid and the O2 sensor. Presumably, then, the air injection solenoid should be energized whenever the O2 sensor and the fuel pump are energized. I don't get 12V+ on either lead to the solenoid when my key is on, or when the engine is running. I DO have a constant ground on the black wire to the solenoid no matter whether the key is on, off or the engine is running. I checked that power is getting to fuse number 9(additional air valve cyl 5-8/Heating lambda probe 5-8)) and yes it is. The label of this fuse further confirms my theory that when the O2 sensor gets power so does the solenoid. So I disconnect the O2 sensor plug under the oil filter and I start the engine and yes, I do get 12V+ at one of the 4 leads, the 2nd from the left, a white wire. But still no 12V+ at the solenoid. I'm thinking I will jumper the O2 wire to the solenoid wire and see if the code goes away.

    Any other ideas?

    Brian
     
  15. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #15 yelcab, Mar 23, 2015
    You have a 2.7 ignition, and it is different from the 2.5 or the 2.3 ignition. I am looking at a fuzzy schematic of a 2.7 system and this is what I have.

    The ECU grounds pin 34 to control Relay D which feed 12V power to the entire ignition circuit of bank 5-8. Secondary air injection valve is fed power from that relay D. The ECU grounds pin 32 to turn on the air injection valve.

    Once relay D is on it also turns on Relay C to feed power to two fuses 8 and 9. Fuse 9 exclusively feeds power to the white wire (heater wire) of the O2 sensor. Fuse 8 feeds power to the fuel pump.

    You can have 12V on that O2 wire and not on the injection valve.

    Your car likely would not run if relay D is bad. So, if that is good and you have no power to the injection valve, then something is wrong with your wiring harness that feeds power to that valve or feeds ground from the ECU. That valve should never have its pin directly connected to ground.

    Something could be wrong with your ECU pin 34 too. Hard to say from here.


    The
     
  16. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #16 carwhisperer, Mar 23, 2015
    Thanks for the reply. Fuzzy as in hard to read? Can you send it to me or provide me with a link? I'll pm you my email address just in case.
     
  17. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 ernie, Mar 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OOOOHHHHH!!! That changes things!

    It is very possible you actually have an air pump (aka: smog pump, for us old school type) similar to what the 355 has, which actively blows fresh air into the intake system. I haven't had to deal with that issue personally, but you may wanna run a search of the archives to see what has been done on the 355s with a similar issue. It's #29 in this diagram of from a 355. Just a total guess here, you may be having an issue with part #8 on the diagram, Ferrari part number 159177??? Total guess as I haven't had to deal with this issue before. I would look to see if I had an air pump, and if my car did (which mine doesn't because its a '90) I would start by checking out #8. Keep in mind that diagram is from a 355 so your 348 could have the pump in a different location, if it does? (as i said I don't know for sure as I don't have that to deal with. Sorry :() Either that OR....... #40 is going/gone bad???
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  18. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 ernie, Mar 24, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2015
    Man I LOVE the internet!!!

    I ran a Google search of the air injection solenoid part number and found this link. It goes into how to diagnose a bad air injection pump on a 355, with pics.

    Air Injection Device - Ferrari

    Again, that is IF your '95 348 actually has one, and some of them do. If my memory serves me correct, it could be located in the right front corner of the engine bay, looking in from the rear of the car. Down and in front of the coolant expansion tank, near the fuel filter.
     
  19. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #19 carwhisperer, Mar 29, 2015
    OK thanks. I believe those are essentially the same valves but on my 348 they are located at the base of the intake manifold on the the rear of each side, just in front of the oil filter. The link you provided suggests revving over 4000 rpm and that they should receive an electrical signal to open. I was wondering what conditions must be met for them to open. I am pretty sure the ECU goes through a check right after start up. Apparently that check is what is setting my CEL, as it comes on right after being started after the code is cleared.
     
  20. Jh348

    Jh348 Karting

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    #20 Jh348, Apr 14, 2016
    Does it throw error codes if remove those air injection solenoids and leave the circuit open?
     
  21. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #21 carwhisperer, Apr 14, 2016
    Not sure but I would think so
     
  22. Jh348

    Jh348 Karting

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    #22 Jh348, Apr 14, 2016
    Ok, has anyone come up with a solution to take those out without a code? Or is the code basically harmless? I mean that it dont affect on engine maps or lit a CEL
     
  23. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #23 yelcab, Apr 14, 2016
    Removing the solenoid would throw a CEL 1123.
     
  24. Jh348

    Jh348 Karting

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    #24 Jh348, Apr 14, 2016
    Thanks, seems like gonna have to let them be there and cap that one line
     

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