"Thomassima IIII" project | Page 4 | FerrariChat

"Thomassima IIII" project

Discussion in 'Special Projects & Concept Cars' started by 121Designer, Nov 13, 2014.

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  1. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Staff Member Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    18,043
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    Full Name:
    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    I didn't plan to post a reply, but here goes anyway.
    I have never disrespected Tom, and neither has anyone else here. You are not Tom Meade.
    I'm not sure who you're referring to as my "9 comment friend", but if it's the user who goes by 375+, he has been on this board for nearly a decade, has contributed over 1400 posts (not 9), and is a well-respected member of the Ferrari community. Perhaps you haven't yet figured out who he is, but those of us who have been here for some time know him well. There is no cause for suspicion.

    And while you have me posting in this thread, I might as well tell everyone what little I know about Tom's last project. At the time that I was helping Tom, he had only worked out four details of the new car, all of them still on paper: the glass taillight lenses, the steering wheel, the wheels, and the logo/emblem. He was spending an enormous amount of time and energy on details of things like the taillight lens design, yet had not even worked out an over-all design for the body, nor which vehicle would provide the donor chassis and powertrain.

    Tom was bogged down and obsessed with these minor details and it was unmistakably clear that he would never actually complete the project. It was also clear, though, that the dream and the work he was putting into it was keeping him going, providing him with a purpose. I had a great deal of respect for the man, I liked him as a person, and I enjoyed spending time with him and hearing his stories. For those reasons, I basically chauffeured him around for a year. He was like a big, excited kid chasing an impossible dream. What was not to like?

    And when I say I was helping him, let me be clear that I had no creative input on this project whatsoever. I spent the better part of a year driving Tom around, talking about cars, digging through his old papers, listening to his stories, taking notes (he wanted me to write a biography), and drinking Peroni. I also helped him sell off parts from various Ferrari wrecks he had accumulated, most of which I listed in the classified section of this site.

    At one point, Tom hired my brother-in-law, a graphic designer, to work on a 3D version of the logo for the emblem that would be affixed to the new car. Unfortunately, this resulted in nothing but frustration for both Tom and my brother-in-law, and so after many hours of work, it continued to exist in drawing form only. The wheel manufacturer was having a similar issue when it came to creating actual wheels based on Tom's drawings that were functional, yet met with Tom's approval aesthetically. Finding manufacturers for the taillights and steering wheel were next on the agenda.

    Nearly a year went by, Tom was really making no headway whatsoever (which didn't seem to faze him), and I had accumulated notebooks of material. Unfortunately, I became busy with trying to raise a family and earn a living, and so I saw less and less of Tom until we were only keeping in touch by telephone. As I've posted somewhere on F-Chat before, Tom left me a voicemail message not long before he died. Sadly, I neglected to return his call until it was too late.

    From what I've seen in this thread (and based on my memory), the taillights and steering wheel design posted by Joshua are virtually unchanged from Tom's drawings. I can imagine we'll see the wheels eventually, and maybe even the completed logo/emblem. I can't say that anything else that we see, however, will actually reflect the work or ideas of Tom Meade.
     
  2. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Nov 4, 2006
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    Marc Sonnery
    I have also been following this thread with my eyebrows raised.

    After my 5 hour 1996 interview of Tom in Santa Monica for my Sportscar Interantional 1998 article (also published in Auto passion in France in 2000) and numerous hour long conversations on the phone through the years I last saw him when we had dinner in Santa Monica in April 2013 4 months before he passed away, his nurse helped him into my rental car out of his tiny dwelling on Midvale, and he never mentioned any collaborators of significance. Never, and most of what we spoke about was his projects and the old days.

    We spoke one last time early May that year and then he was gone...

    In my view Tom's legacy died with him, anything else is an attempt to recuperate it by someone who also tried repeatedly to contact me and took a long time to get the hint that I was not interested, not falling for this claimed continuation. Perhaps others might be fooled but not me and not many who read this thread.

    Some only fool themselves.

    This will be my only post here, I have no time for forum threads which turn sour.

    MS
     
  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    I too have been repeatedly contacted by that designer and like Marc Sonnery raised my eyebrows as well. I preferred to stay silent and not to comment, until now. I last met Tom Meade on the 12th February 2009 near Lenno, Lake Como, Italy, and he didnt't mention anything about a collaborator. I would have been massively surprised anyway.

    Marcel Massini
     
  4. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

    Aug 15, 2013
    256
    Burbank,California
    Full Name:
    Joshua Lange
    To clarify some things for the readers and keep this thread positive...

    What is clear to me is that you were all (El Wayne, Sonnery and Massini), no longer around, for the most part, by the time Tom had his Thomassima IIII project was up and running. You guys are so in the dark, and so convinced within yourselves that your presumptions are true, that you simply cannot believe the truth when it is before you. The project is not dead, and, in fact, there was a team of professionals working until the end with Tom, including myself, to complete the TIIII build. I was simply the Project Manager, who coordinated everything between Tom and his vendors, as well as the lead builder for the tub, among other things, as clearly outlined in my contract with Tom, something I will gladly share with anyone who cares to see it, along with thousands of other documents, e-mails, etc. I have yet to see any of you even provide dates, much less any other substantiating facts or evidence that you were anything more than, by your own admission, people who were barely in touch with Tom by the last few years and end of his life.

    Anyone who knew Tom knew that he was highly secretive and was not one to needlessly share details with people about things they simply had no reason to know. Tom’s biographer in the last few years of his life, Chad Glass, shared what Tom permitted him to share and Tom even kept him on a need-to-know basis, as with almost everyone else. Just as Tom did not tell you about me, he also did not tell me about you. So, exactly when and how did you all know Tom? Dates and facts would be great, which I have no shortage of.

    After Tom passed, I reached out to let his friends and supporters know that the TIIII project was not dead. The people that did take the time to meet with me were positive and supportive of my efforts to see this project through to completion as Tom asked me to do. If anyone wants proof of that, I can provide it. I am an open book, with nothing to hide. I am a car guy and an auto enthusiast who is simply here to share the continuation of a great man’s story and thus complete what is known as, a Continuation Car, for the sheer enjoyment of doing so. Why? Because I can. I am a car builder, that’s what I do. That’s really all there is to it.

    I expected that there would be skeptics, and I find it interesting that among the worst skeptics, are those who admitted to being out of touch with Tom at the end, when things were getting done, and who also refused to meet with me. If you want to ignore me, that’s fine, but why publicly make baseless claims and negative comments afterwards? This only serves as an attempt to tarnish Tom’s good name, someone whom you claimed was a friend, so that you could make some point that is still not clear.

    As the last man standing on the project, I saved what I was able to save because I care about Tom and I know how much this project meant to him. I am completing this project as a labor of love to honor my friend and mentor, Tom Meade. Anyone who wants to say otherwise is simply wasting their time and only proving further how in the dark they really were. The value of this car is not based on anything anyone can classify in whatever realm they subscribe to. The value of this car is based the pride I take in keeping my word to my friend and that, is priceless.

    Simply here to share for the joy of doing so….
     
  5. -K1-

    -K1- Formula Junior

    Jul 10, 2008
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    Ken
    I'm excited to see the fruits of your labour. When do we expect to see a reveal of some sort - perhaps sketches?
     
  6. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2009
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    Ted
    This thread is on the verge of a lot of things...not being vintage is one of them.
     
  7. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    True. At some point, Joshua transitioned from honoring and remembering Tom Meade (the spirit and purpose of the original thread), to documenting his own "Thomassima IIII" project. I've split off the discussion of his project into a separate thread and placed it in the appropriate Special Projects & Concept Cars forum.
     
  8. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #83 El Wayne, Jul 14, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2015
    Marcel, Marc, and I all mentioned the dates when we were in contact with Tom. You might try reading our posts again.

    As I've stated before in this thread, I spent 2005-2006 with Tom. At the time, he had designed on paper and was working on physically producing:

    - Crystal taillight lenses
    - Crystal logos
    - Wheels
    - A steering wheel

    So far, you've shown or described to us the following:

    - Crystal taillight lenses
    - Crystal logos
    - Wheels
    - A steering wheel

    If you want to build a car that's inspired by the work of Tom Meade, incorporate these four details that Tom spent years trying to realize, and proclaim that you're doing it all in his honor, by all means do so. Nobody will fault you for being inspired by the man.

    Where you will run into push-back, however, is in any attempt to profit from Tom's reputation by selling your car to the public as an authentic Tom Meade creation.

    And with that, I see no need to comment any further on this project of yours.
     
  9. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

    Aug 15, 2013
    256
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    Joshua Lange
    Gianni, has cared for Tom's collection and stayed true To Tom's last wishes. I actually lit the fire under Tom about the lost Nembo in Lebanon, in 2112, as we worked on the Thomassima IIII, side by side, as Gianni stipulated in our contract. Gianni was able to track it down and thankfully restore it to join her Thomassima III sister. I had a great day Sunday with Larry Crane, Ferrari historian and most in touch with Tom's last project unlike others claiming any relevant knowledge here, riding shotgun on my LCIII Spider which debuted at the Motor4Toys charity car show. We were joined by Meade supporter Murray Cogan, an esteemed member of the Ferrari community. I included set of leaded crystal taillights I co-designed and built for the Thomassima IIII Ferrari, which I continue to build. Please see Thomassima.com for the real story.
     
  10. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,611
    San Antonio
    great site
     
  11. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

    Aug 15, 2013
    256
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    Joshua Lange
    #86 121Designer, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
    Larry Crane, Murray Cogan, both esteemed members of the Ferrari community, talk over Tom Meade's and my work in the debut of the LCIII Spider honoring our work together for those who might appreciate the Meade legacy. Tom Meade was celebrated at the biggest car show in LA, next to the manufacturer based LA Auto Show. Larry Crane, unlike Marc Sonnery and others, believed that Tom could actually complete his Thomassima IIII and was 10 years more updated on the 1997 article which Sonnery said Meade would never finish, sadly. If I was Tom, and I'm most like him here, I would have shut Sonnery out other than being polite after that slight in print. In fact, I was privy to that phone call with Tom Marc quoted in his death statement in this thread. It was painfully clear that Marc had not spoken with Tom in years and was completely out of our loop. Worse yet, Marc and El Wayne used childish rhetoric to back there misguided points Tom. Larry Crane told me, at lunch with Ed Niles, Tom said, " I finally have someone who is getting things done." The fact is that Tom was the manichino builder and NEVER built his cars all on his own, as I just did, in aerospace carbon, again. ALL on my own. Why do you think Tom Meade hired me?
    I met with the owner of Tom's California bought in 2009 at the Quail Lodge gathering. Meeting him man to man and shaking his hand, I know he did speak with Tom BEFORE I met Tom in June,2009. I wish you guys would get your timelines straight before you jump to think you know the real story. That is just the civil way to handle things. I am an appreciator of Tom. What are you people?
     
  12. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

    Aug 15, 2013
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    Joshua Lange
    +1000
     
  13. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

    Aug 15, 2013
    256
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    Full Name:
    Joshua Lange
    If anyone would know outside of the Meade camp, it would be you. You took the time, painfully so as you took down Tom's thoughts word for word, to record our Thomassima IIII build and Tom's history leading up to it. You have character and knew the value of Tom's story. Thank you and I look forward to more of your Meade writing.
     
  14. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

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    Joshua Lange
    #89 121Designer, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
    El Wayne, you just said you dealt with Meade and the Nembo chissis info in 2005-6. Thank you for establishing that you knew nothing of Tom's work clearly after I met him in 2009. You and you nepotism of hiring your brother, who was paid while not finishing his work, were a part of the problem. I fired all that did not finish their work for Tom and in fact I finished that Thomassima animal your cousin could not figure out. Also,I trademarked it in 2010, so your doubts about it being finished are very out of touch and your facts were very outdated.I know the time frame you knew Tom. No later than 2006 or 2007. Please with your all knowing belligerence, understand, you know nothing about the Meade camp. My stating that previously in this thread is what ruffled your feathers and I expect you wont like this truth either. You don't have to be the authority about things you are in the dark about my friend.
     
  15. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

    Aug 15, 2013
    256
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    Full Name:
    Joshua Lange
    This project is a continuation of Meade's and my work and is not "my own Thomassima IIII". Unfortunately, El Wayne, was out of communication with Tom since before I started working and doesn't have any personal knowledge of the actual project. Larry Crane, was privy to the project and has written of my work on thomassima.com. I encourage people to read the real story.
     
  16. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

    Aug 15, 2013
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    Joshua Lange
    #91 121Designer, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
    El wayne, You and your other buddies you just mentioned had no contact with Meade in his later years. Your nepotism by hiring your brother, who you bragged worked on the animal and logo could finish, were the problem. To update your information which clearly goes back to 2007, I finished your brother-in-law's inept work by completing that logo and animal and trademarking them in 2010. Check the trademark site before your show your ignorance. These pieces were finished long ago. Much of the car was completed and the rest very documented in Tom's hand. Your ignorance and distain are a sad testament to your time with Tom. But, let me remind you, you said Tom could never finish his car. Well, Tom didn't ever finish a car. He had Ferrari builders and most recently me, to do that. I find it sad that you think Tom wasn't aware of your lack of confidence or you were getting your family work that they were not qualified to complete. Shame on you El Wayne for nepotism and just hanging and drinking with Tom...wasting his precious time. I didn't drink wine with Tom, I simply worked hard as I continue to do.
     
  17. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

    Aug 15, 2013
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    Joshua Lange
    #92 121Designer, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Larry Crane and Murray Cogan, two esteemed members of the local Ferrari community look over the Meade legacy continuing to grow as the LCIII, my personal car, debuted at Motors4Toys. Meade appreciators are welcome. Haters find another thread, please. Yes, there are pieces from the Thomassima IIII like a set of the leaded crystal tailights I co designed. This car is all about bringing attention to the current Thomassima IIII build. I hope you enjoy my passion and design.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. 121Designer

    121Designer Formula Junior

    Aug 15, 2013
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    Joshua Lange
    You in fact posted no dates of your time with Tom, El Wayne. Very ambiguous was your description. You need to check your posts Mr. Also after meeting Marcel at Quail Lodge gathering this year, he told me he had not spoken with Tom since I met Tom in 2009. He is a nice guy, but his facts were off. Marc, when I heard the only conversation with Tom he obviously had in years from them catching up for an hour, knows nothing of Tom's work in later life. Larry Crane covered Tom in 2007 and was kept in the loop because he believed in Tom. Marc's article sadly and ignorantly exclaimed the Tom would never finish his T4. Tom didn't finish any of his cars, as he had hired people like me in the past and finally found one who got things done in me. That is what he personally told Larry Crane, "I finally have someone who's getting things done."
    . Please see thomassima.com for the real scoop from a writer Tom kept in the loop.
     
  19. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
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    Thank you, Joshua. Post more photos of your LC III Spider ;)
     
  20. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    I've warned you before to keep your self-promoting posts (regarding your LCIII Spider and current Thomassima IIII projects) confined to this designated thread. I think I've been more than generous, considering you're not a paying sponsor, and in fact, have not even ponied up the $15 subscription cost to support this site. There's really no good reason why I should allow you to promote your work here at all.

    What's odd is that you choose to repay this generosity by attacking me personally, calling me ignorant and belligerent - offenses that would have earned you a ban had the remarks been aimed at any of our other users. I can't begin to fathom why you think I'll continue to allow you to post your stuff here in spite of all of this. You do realize that you're being granted a special privilege here, don't you? No other non-subscribed user has been allowed to promote a commercial project as you have. I've even given you your own designated thread in which to do so!

    Anyway, I've moved your LCIII and TIIII posts (and all replies to those posts) to this thread, where they should have been posted in the first place. Let this be a very public warning, however, that another attempt to spread this stuff to other areas of this site will result in a ban. Also, make sure to keep your "ignorant" and "belligerent" comments directed toward me. If you launch personal attacks against our other users (Marc Sonnery, Marcel Massini, Ed Niles, etc.), then I'll be forced to make you go away.

    And how clever of you to try and put a spin on this. To clarify for everyone else, Tom asked if I knew anyone who did design work and so I referred him to my brother-in-law, a graphic designer. Since my brother-in-law was unable to produce a satisfactory three-dimensional product without considerable alteration to Tom's hand-drawn design (and due to Tom's refusal to allow any such modifications at the time), no money ever changed hands.
     
  21. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2004
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    I have just read through this thread for the first time. I am dismayed to see the vituperation displayed by Mr. Lange, especially against our esteemed moderator El Wayne. Since my name seems to have been mentioned several times, I want it known that I am not endorsing Mr. Lange's comments, which I find to be in poor taste, and not in keeping with intent and purpose of this chat room.

    As shown in the photo, I did have lunch with Mr. Lange; the only time I've met him. One of those present made the comment, afterward, "My, but he did take charge of the table, didn't he?" Thus, his comments in this thread are just an extension of his nature. He is a talker and a self-promoter, not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think he needs to insult anyone in the process.

    As far as poor Tom is concerned, let me say that I first met him in 1966, when he was very active brokering cars and overseeing the occasional re-body or remodel. He was always very much his own man, brooking no criticism. No doubt he had talent, and was quite successful in his endeavors. In his later years, however, he had suffered a stroke and needed assistance getting out of his residence. We respected each other as we were from the old days, and he loved to reminisce. However, he was very critical of most of the younger people, and had become the picture of a mean old man. He was secretive to the point of paranoia, and all he ever showed me of his new project was the tail light lenses (which do not a car make!) Frankly, I took it all with the proverbial large grain of salt. He never mentioned the names of Lange nor of Gianni.

    I suggest that we put this thread to bed without supper.
     
  22. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,611
    San Antonio
    Tom was paranoid and very difficult to work with. He was often his own enemy. But he had a soft side if you could get past his wall. He had heart and he was an artist.

    And yea, Josh, you'd be wise to soften your posts. No need to lash out at the community that is your audience.
     
  23. Duane_Estill

    Duane_Estill F1 Rookie
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    Indeed. The high handedness is almost stupifying. When people offer commentary on posts, they aren't competing with your inner circle exclusivity, they are trying to share in your joy, so to speak, or, better put, excessively self-aggrandizing statements, ad nauseum, It does stand out even in this forum for it's abounding excess.

    And no one has to know about the project or person in question to make THAT observation.
    People do have the right to comment whether they were on the design team or not, you seem to want to deny them that.
     
  24. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,482
    Probably nobody cares at this point but: shouldn´t it be called "Thomassima IV"?
     

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