2015 24 Hours of Le Mans | Page 12 | FerrariChat

2015 24 Hours of Le Mans

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by BartonWorkman, Feb 5, 2015.

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  1. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Spot on, I've been saying that for years especially with the demise of GT-1.

    But, for whatever reason, the ACO won't hear of a Supercar formula at Le Mans. It doesn't
    make sense as the mid-90s version of the FIA GT was epic.

    BHW
     
  2. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Just curious what the Nissan LMP1 did in terms of top speed. Might be an indicator of what the problems were / were not.

    I know they ran a 2MJ system, but hard for me to believe power was the problem. I'd suspect handling, but as mentioned previously, the Jalopnik post suggested it was clutch and brake problems, specifically accelerated wear.
     
  3. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    It sure was. Would kill to see that again...
     
  4. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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  5. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Interesting. Looks like the Nissan was on pace speed wise with the Audis and Toyotas. Porsche and Rebellion were 10mph faster.

    In some of the splits, the Nissan was much closer in time than others. I don't have time to break down completely (although it's somewhere on this site), but I'm wondering if the Nissan was losing it in the twisties (implying that FWD wasn't optimal). I heard that rear grip was not good (not surprising, since in the turns, there's less downforce due to the speeds).
     
  6. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    The fastest Nissan was #23 driven by Oliver Pla at 338.1 KMH on lap 78 of the race.

    The other two were down the order a bit at 337.0 KMH in qualifying/practice 3 and
    333.0 also in qualifying/practice 3.

    Sadly, the classic tracks that we grew up watching aren't foot-to-the-floor for 98% of
    the lap any more. But, at the same time, drivers aren't getting killed every weekend
    either.

    BHW
     
  7. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    data source? please don't say NISMO PR :p
     
  8. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
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    I am sorry, but that comment demonstrates that you don't actually follow the race or any of the WEC in any sort of depth. I think Toyota and Porsche would both disagree with your statement as it applies to 2014.

    Just to survive is not a given. Look at 2011, when 2 of the 3 Audis were removed by GT cars.

    2016 is going to be incredible, with 4 manufacturers in LMP1 (ignore Toyota and Nissan at your peril) plus the GTLM with Ford's return, all fighting on a field made insane by privateers in Pro-Am entries.

    And by the way, it was dry almost the entire race. Had there been rain...
     
  9. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    It's a sheet distributed by the FIA WEC/ACO with all of the top speeds posted by each of
    the cars during the race weekend titled "Event Maximum Speed".

    BHW
     
  10. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #285 GuyIncognito, Jun 16, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    share with the rest of the class Barton :)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    I was actually trying to SELL the information for any takers.

    You've foiled my plans Chas. Drats, you and your meddling dog!

    (Shakes fist in air)...

    BHW
     
  12. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

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    I was streaming their feed. The right sharp right hander at the end of Indianapolis, was a real time killer, couldn't put power down. The same for the right hander at the end of the Mulsanne.

    I also think they had some serious software problems. They'd end up coasting in neutral out of these corners almost every lap for a great deal of time that I watched. After several garage visits, they seemed to get rid of the problem on one of the cars.

    The Audi can under cut a GT off these corners, the Nissan had to wait for it to straighten up.
     
  13. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    That sheet is weird, wouldn't it make more sense if the top car had a series of top speed laps? Or was it showing the top speeds of each team, then ranked (which is what it appears to be)?

    Nissan not off the pace at all.
     
  14. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    my dog is very meddling.

    :)
     
  15. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    just as long as he/she poops on your side of the property. :D
     
  16. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    When the heck has mere top speed defined the pace of a race car on a circuit with corners! Being front wheel drive they probably waste considerable seconds trying to get out of the corners, and also wear the front tyres (requiring more stops).

    Fact is, Nissan have gone stupid with their Motorsport. Cornering performance is far more important than just aero. Nissan have now wasted their time with 2 stupid aero advantage only ideas and need to get back to what matters and stop this foolishness
    Pete
     
  17. Bertus

    Bertus Formula 3

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  18. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Since Le Mans has always been defined by extraordinarily long straights, top speeds have
    been reported. As discussed earlier in the thread, the WM Peugeot team went out to set
    the fastest top speed and once that was accomplished, they promptly brought the cars in
    and that was it.

    But, since the top speeds in the traps were rather surprisingly less than expected, it's
    obvious that Audi, Porsche and Toyota have sacrificed straight line speed for cornering
    speeds whereas Nissan went all out for the straight line speed.

    Looking at images of the Nissan on the track earlier and thinking about it, how did they
    expect that a front wheel drive car with most (if not all) the weight forward the cockpit
    and the skinny rear wheels to work?

    It just defies what has become conventional modern racing car wisdom, the the engine
    is aft the cockpit and the main drive is to the rear wheels with the fattest tires allowed
    by the rules.

    We'll see what Nissan's reaction is and if they intend to carry on with this approach or if
    they go a more conventional route as reinventing the wheel sure hasn't worked for them
    so far.

    BHW
     
  19. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Of course cornering is important - the mere concept of racing is compromise and how to minimize it. But if Nissan's top speed was far off pace, then it's an indicator of what's wrong. If they are off pace in the corners, same thing.

    Logic would dictate that the layout did not lend itself to the "compromises" (corners), and the data somewhat bears that out. However, assume a far flung scenario - what if a car were hellaciously fast on the straight bits, but slightly off pace in the corners? Could a team conclude that's a better path? Again, logic dictates no, but all tracks are different, and the data is necessary to come to conclusion.

    It's almost impossible to make any conclusions without data, the top speed data is one factor that must be considered.
     
  20. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Well said. Based on comments from Nissan / Bowlby, it seems they thought they could make up time in the straights while sacrificing in the corners. No way is pulling the horse through the turns is going to be easier than pushing it...how many front drive street cars can outhandle a rear drive car?

    I do believe it's a valid concept - perhaps with a 8MJ system, it might be more competitive on tracks with longer straights. We'll see.
     
  21. SWB

    SWB Formula Junior

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    The way things are, Nissan's fwd dragster is in for a tougher time at upcoming circuits like COTA, Interlagos etc.
     
  22. IamRobG

    IamRobG F1 Rookie

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    Just finished watching it finally. Been avoiding the news like the plague. Good race, congrats to Dempsey on the podium and Porsche for the win again
     
  23. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    I've heard that Nissan will go with AWD next year just like their competition, but the engine will still be in front.
     
  24. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

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    That would help.

    Wasn't it supposed to be "AWD" this year? It wasn't all the time AWD, but that the hybrid motor would power the rear wheels in corners?

    Thought that was the plan, but can't remember.
     
  25. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    From the bits seen during the race, the Nissans could hang with the other P-1 cars on
    the straights but they were getting eaten alive in the turns.

    It's always interesting when someone tries something new like this Nissan and the
    Deltawing for example but conventional wisdom usually wins out in the end and usually
    in racing, if something radical comes along that has such a great advantage, it gets
    banned by the sanctioning body anyway.

    BHW
     

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