Just how fast

Just how fast can a stock boxer really go. Ferrari said 188 on a BB, but that was marketing BS. I rmemebr a R&T test of a BBI where they got to 166 or soemthign but that was a federalised car.

Seems there are any number of credible reports of daytonas getting intot he 170s, although these may be period speedometer numbers and somewheat suspect.
But tot his day I have never read a credible maxed out BB or BBI top speed, liek soemhtign on a GPS.

I think "in theory" my car would loose accalerative pace somewhere around the high 5krpm say 5800 range in 5th where aero forces really begin to blunt drive and you are gobbling up road too fast to keep at it, what speed would that be in relaity?. On a long enough stretch of road I have no doubt that it would pull past 6k rpm I assume to the power peak soemwhere around 6600, but never found such a stretch of road and the long straight at monticello is not long enough to find out. Anyone ever done it.

 

145 mph is 7k rpm in 4th, I can punch up there pretty quickly even ont he straight at monticello, and its pretty stable, the high 5k rpm in 5th is probaly 155-160 or so, as you guys say lots of rattle shake going on and acceration past thta point is what i would term incremental.

I think after Newman does my next eo and we redo the supension bushings I will have to try see what a BBi can really do. Seems like 160s is a known quatity and speds above thta require a really really long stretch.

My sens eis a Daytona is a betetr more stable hgh pseed msiile, whereas a BB is more a corner carver, good for the modern age.

 

Would really like toi here your general compro between a BBI and aTR.

 

Had the same issue in a Lp5000. Whenver I would push past an indicated 165(whatever that really was) oil and water temps would rise at the same rate as the revs. At an indicated 175ish temps woudl be so high det woudl set in. Then I woudl back off and temps would drop. The Ct seemed to have more drive at these higher speeds than the BBi.
But above 160ish in the ct I was literealy contersteerign a weave to keep going straight, almost like a boat chine walking where you contersteer to keep it on an even keel, and the front end was real light, early 911 light.. This was in South Africa where there were long big open roads to play with.

On the BBi I notice oil temps can rise, but not so much with speed,(maybe havent gone real fast or for too long.) more like when you are workign it in 3rd and 4th. From the little high speed I have done in BBI car it feels a lot more planted than in the front end than the Ct when up there, althoug a lot less stable on say 120-130mph bends. A BB is most def a slow in fast out kinda car, ct felt more neutral and direct.

One of these days... its simply gotta be tried for posterity.

Anybody know of a dead Tr, I have a 512M motor laying around.

 

I am going to say that the rear of a boxer always will have that unpredicatble feeling. You get used to it, and its an attribute, but at spreed ita all exagerated.

Whereas the Daytona by rep was always supremly stable at speed. Thats probablya good reason why the boixer was nto so loved in period, esp as they ahd the same crappy tires as a daytona, sou really did nto take adavantge of the me layout.

I hear if you want a really scary ride at speed try a miura.

Modern rubber gives my BBi oddles of grip, more predictability and better ride, it does not make it feel less twichy at speed. I suspect that bushings and appropriate alignment could change that a lot, after all a Tr is really a lwb boxer. Next time I may try Tr alignment settings. Its gotta be correctable, a BBLM is essetialy the same chasiis and suspension, the ealry ones had close to stock bodywork and ran big speeds on track. Shocks bushigs and tires. My guess is stock bushings are very soft as are the roll bars to cope witht he crappy tires, when you change tires one probably needs to sitten the rest up too.

Lets say its going to take a long piece of road and brave sould to push a stock BB past 170, and there better not be a bend in the middle. I think the TRXs are only rated for 155.

 

And you are dehydrated drained and ready for a a great sleep.

You sir hit the nail on the head.

 

A euro spec daytona maybe faster?
We know the Boxer is going to be dramtic at speed. I wonder what revs Phil Hill was pulling.

 

In the 6 May 1978 issue, Autocar road tested the Ferrari 512 BB, claimed at the time to be the fastest road car in production.

Our testers were slightly disappointed to tease a top speed of only 163mph from the Berlinetta Boxer’s 4942cc, 12-cylinder engine, compared with Maranello’s claimed 188mph.

“Try as we might, we could persuade no more than a mean 163mph at 5975rpm from the beast, while the car’s electronic speedometer read 174mph,” they reported.

The performance generated a torrent of responses from readers, some of whom shared Autocar’s disappointment at the maximum speed its testers had achieved.

David Steinberg of London wrote: “I own a 1974 365 GT4 BB and have seen 195mph on the clock on the Stuttgart-Basel motorway at 6am.”

GH Jones of Dollis Hill reckoned we’d made a mistake: “I fail to believe this figure of 163mph is correct, as other road tests show figures of 197 and 188mph. You state the acceleration from 0-60mph as 6.2sec, whereas another magazine says it takes only 5.1sec. How can your figures vary so much?”

Autocar’s road test team responded thus: “Autocar is the first British motoring magazine to measure a Boxer’s performance accurately – which among other things means attaching an accurate speed measuring device to the test car – and not to rely on the car’s own speedometer, which above 150mph can be grossly optimistic.

“What one may see ‘on the clock’ in one direction is, with the greatest of respect, neither here nor there. There is not the slightest doubt about the performance we measured; it is what that particular car was capable of in the condition in which it was presented to us.

“That said, was that particular 512 BB au point? On hearing our results, Maranello Concessionaires suspect that it was not. They propose to check the car thoroughly and return it to Autocar for retest, which we shall perform.”

The test team laid bare their workings, proving that the Ferrari as tested could not have hit the hallowed speed: “To reach the magic 188mph, with the car geared as it is at 27.28mph per 1000rpm and not allowing for any possible tyre growth, the engine would have to rev at 6900rpm, well past the 6200rpm peak. Unless the power curve is absolutely flat, the gearing would seem to indicate a lower top speed than is claimed.”

Autocar nevertheless held the £26,104 car in high regard: “If the ultimate top-end performance is not within the Berlinetta Boxer’s grasp, it is more than compensated for by its flexibility. Snap open the throttle from 2000rpm upwards in any gear and the car surges forward.

“Ferrari has done a magnificent job but it would be nice to be able to say, if only for the Guinness Book of Records, that the Boxer truly is the fastest production car in the world.”

Previous Throwback Thursdays

 

Great period perspective

https://drive-my.com/en/test-drive/item/1620-group-test-ferrari-512bbi-boxer-porsche-911-turbo-930-vs-lamborghini-countach-and-aston-martin-vantage.html

 

Based on revs and the above article I may have just cracked 160 in mine in theory of course theoreticaly not so long ago. If a BBI can go 170 its going to need a lot of road to get there, because above 5700rpm the speed gain comes on slow. Well maybe I I cosed the windows there would be less aero drag and it could come on a bit faster.

 

Interesting to see the price for all 4 cars, and thinking of their price now.

 

:Originally Posted by SCantera View Post
"The BB is a single-purpose built car. Not the fastest....certainly not the most comfortable ...joke of an a/c system.......not great for long trips unless you like your clothes (and you) steamed........nor easy to drive as it does require strength for clutch and steering........

It's built for the thrill of the drive. No slacking allowed either physically nor mentally. But the sensory overload is phenomenal. Sight......sound........feel.........and the smells that emanate from the car after a rollick through the hillside roads. You have had a great drive in the BB when after you climb out of the car and you can smell the fuel, exhaust, oil, clutch and yourself!! The 5 fragrances of the BB!
great writing and 100 % true
driving such car nearly to the limit in public traffic ( that means about 60 % at a racetrack ) makes so much fun if you know how to drive and also enjoy the hard handling. so nothing for "motherboys". that was real driving at that time and not like today where you only accelerate and steer and the electronic always beeps when the distance to the front or the rear car is too small."

You two have hit the essence on its head. One of the reasons why a boxer has not been worth what some other ferraris are, is it takes a driver to actualy use one, and as we know these days not to many of those about.

I always marvel when I go on a club run, the BBi can set the pace for the others, while I am workingn for my speed and having fun, they are managing systems. The speed at which you are not managing suystems in a modern on the road its the speed of insanity anbd really only attainable past 9/10ths on track.

BTW I think "theoreticaly" as of yesterday a BBi like mine will pull to 6K rpm in 5th, in a relaitivey reasonable distance. There is more to go for sure. Putting the windows up makes a big difference. Above 5500 rpm it all settles down again and tracks well, but you do "theoreticaly" get the feeling of skating on ice, any significant lane change or turn would be setting a frisbee in motion.

I am going to suspect that on my car modern rubber and worn/soft suspension bushings means there is a toe in toe out effect in the rear when loaded, and that a suspension redo, alignment to tr specs, and maybe something like penseke shocks would work with the modern rubber to have it handle more like a BBLM, in which case corners at 170 should be fine.

Long ago I discovered that some great pads means the stock brakes when workign properly are just fine, well good enough for a few massive slowdowns at the end of along straight on a track, ie more than you will need at speed on the road.

I do lament the moma boys moderns, they are fast and stable for sure, but besides being good in traffic, whats the point.