Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918 | Page 681 | FerrariChat

Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by mpowered, Nov 3, 2012.

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  1. Whoopsy

    Whoopsy Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2012
    834
    Vancouver, BC
    Outside of Nardo test track on the big oval, no other circuits in the world have high speed high down force corners after corners, some might have 1 or 2 of those in a lap. Same thing with speed above 265km/hr, most tracks have maybe a couple straights that one can go faster than that, but only for a few seconds.

    Disregard starting from rest, where the 918 has no peers, most race tracks stress speed from 60 or so km/hr up to around 265km/hr, the mid range so to speak. Slowing down to corners then accelerate on straights to slow down at the next corner, etc. This is where the 918 shines. Nothing can match it coming out of corners, so it will pull ahead quite a few car lengths, the other cars might have a better top end and be faster at the other end of the straights, but 2 problems, first they have to make up the few car lengths deficits, then they had to hope the straights are long enough for them to catch and pass the 918.

    We know the 918 have ungodly brakes, so it will most certainly be the last to brake and hold on to it's position. A car travelling faster will also need longer braking distances, so they will have to brake earlier still.

    This is the reason why the Dr Walliser designed the 918 that way and why it is proven to be the faster track car despite being down on power and heavier on paper.

    It will likely be even faster after being fitted with the non-ECO Cup2 from the GT3RS.
     
  2. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Ferrari didn't supply a factory car to MT for their Laguna Seca comparisson because there is no factory LaFerrari in the US to begin with. Other than that, Ferrari is not particularly interested in this pissing contest. A customer car doing just 4 laps on worn standard tyres was faster than either of the other two factory hypercars though at the same track with the same driver. Like it or not, these are the facts.
     
  3. hootan

    hootan Karting

    Sep 29, 2014
    165
    Completely disagree! Motor Trend had a LaFerrari (Treynor LaFerrari) but Ferrari refused to support them with their technicians! here the original text from Motor Trend "but Ferrari refused to grant permission for hot laps and data acquisition to the owner of the car we had lined..." It seems you unaware from this fantastic Motor Trend Test!
    Please don't counting unofficial lap times! and think with yourself why Ferrari refused when Motor Trend had lined a fresh LaFerrari
    Here you can check the real article!
    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1503_2015_mclaren_p1_vs_2015_porsche_918_spyder/
     
  4. hootan

    hootan Karting

    Sep 29, 2014
    165
    Agree You %100
    Many Thanks Whoopsy!
     
  5. Pagani2011

    Pagani2011 Karting

    Mar 25, 2011
    88
    Hi
    thanks i agree instead of one point. all owners i know so far mentioned that the maintenance costs are much cheaper than reported. I have a comment and some of you will know him from other car sides that a veyron has no higher maintenance costs than a Mercedes SLR for instance. If you drive him hard than the tyres might cost you a lot but the rest seems to be equal to other supercars. I am also sure that the battery cars will cost a lot to keep them running in the future especially when the battery needs to be changed.
     
  6. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
    8,102
    The Horn
    Full Name:
    Igor Ound
    Interesting of the SLR.

    Veyron and Laferrari are similarly placed to the way SLR and Carrera GT were.

    The Gt played the value holding game better so far
     
  7. glendon

    glendon Karting

    Sep 13, 2013
    118
    Not sure how significant this is but in the video uploaded by car and driver the laf was regularly hitting 270kmph on the fiorano straight. When journalists drove it last year
    it didn't top 260 once. Even with rafeal di simmone at the wheel it barely went past 260 that's about a 10kmph difference
     
  8. supermafy

    supermafy Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2013
    346
    Rome (it)
    Untrue

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opz9GVzbogQ
    50s.... Almost 270kph
     
  9. Luque

    Luque Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2009
    484
    Italy
    #17009 Luque, Apr 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I don't think so.
    The C&D driver seems to keep the right foot down up to the apex of the first slight left bend (I saw he have done a lot of mistakes missing apex a go-go)
    Pictures in the same point of the straight compared to Sport Auto Test pilot Christian Gebhardt
    234 vs 232 kmh (7.15s of C&D video 271 km/h final speed)
    No differences.
    Happy Easter
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. CarMaven

    CarMaven Formula Junior

    May 9, 2014
    523
    @Bigthree

    PS/Correction: I meant "Active suspension" earlier (I said "Active Aero" regarding one of the P1's calling cards, as the 918 has active aero as well).

    The 918 does not have "Active Suspension (certainly not the way the P1 does)". However, the German car out handles and brakes its British rival due to it's total package (as I mentioned earlier in regards to your 4WS comments).
     
  11. CarMaven

    CarMaven Formula Junior

    May 9, 2014
    523
    Hey Hootan.

    I'd like to thank you again as well.

    Hope you're having a great weekend, along with a Happy Easter or Passover if you celebrate?

    Yeah, either Porsche is an amazing company that has everything down to the last detail (including those 8 1/2 lbs for the second gearing), or they're full of you know what!?...Just kidding. Lol.

    It would have been interesting to see the car with that 2nd gear in the front motor (and for ultimate high speed acceleration bragging rights). However you can't argue with Porsche's results from their perspective. I also know the added horsepower has a power gain, but battery drain deficit as well. So they're no Free Lunches/Nothings For Free as they say in engineering or power plants/energy production (until that Light Speed-Dark Matter Propulsion system of the far future arrives). LOL

    Saying all that: I don't think many realize how complex the 918 is. Porsche had to disengage the front motor due to potential over revving as the 918's single speed front motor revs to over 16000 rpm totally out of sync with the rear motor which passes through it's 7 speed drive train. This is the reason for the decoupling as you know. Hell, even the main 135 kilo-608 HP 4.6 litre race sourced 8 cylinder ICE engine lacks any ancillary drive belts as the a/c compressor, water pump, power steering etc.. are all run from the cars electrical system.

    The fact that Porsche could integrate the far flung engines/motors; regenerative braking feel; 4WS and 4WD into one seamless driving package is quite amazing, as well as taking years of tweaking, calibration and software code-no doubt. So kudos to them, their designers, drivers and engineers for working out it all out. It appears Porsche did the heavy lifting that car companies will silently thank them for in the future.

    Quite honestly, I think all these vehicles are great (as many of you do) in their own way!

    Enjoy!
     
  12. s-mario

    s-mario Karting

    Jan 17, 2013
    212
    #17012 s-mario, Apr 5, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
    While all of this is true, it had been used by some early reviewers as an excuse to overemphasize the "calibration" that Porsche had done to fine-tune the vehicles responses for the driver unjustly & incorrectly portraying the driver as a mere passenger. How revealing, in contrast to that, to see & hear Randy Pobst marvel at the steering's feedback of the 918, actually, the entire car's handling as a "surgeon's scalpel" in the MT review with all electronic aids turned off (!!!). High praise indeed from an experienced professional race driver such as Randy and this, not the lap times, impressed me most in this review.
     
  13. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    That's exactly what I said; there was no factory LaFerrari available. ;)
     
  14. fredhart

    fredhart Karting

    Mar 22, 2006
    181
    I wonder why none of the 3 manufacturers went with batteries in the floor like the Tesla. From what I understand (from those who drove the Model S back when Tesla IPOed in 2010...I mention because of the date) this revolutionizes the handling by lowing the center of gravity and stiffening the chassis.

    Mclaren in particular seems to have placed the pack unusually high. There's got to be a lot of room for improvement there, especially considering how the 918 exits turns quicker. Maybe there are some IP issues or maybe I'm looking at this with 20/20 hindsight of a novel idea, but it strikes me as a no-brainier.
     
  15. CarMaven

    CarMaven Formula Junior

    May 9, 2014
    523
    Who knows?

    Traditionally, they're all type of manufacturing, logistical, infrastructure and cost reasons, along with client wishes intersecting with vendor limitations.

    Nonetheless, I'll take a shot. LOL

    P1 was based off a previous vehicle, and probably been too much work, nearly impo$$ible. Can't speak for the LaFe, but probably similar reasons as above for the P1. Anecdotally; yes, McLaren's pack is high due to it's vehicles (12C) infrastructure. It's been discussed here before. They worked with what they had.... All things considered, not a bad job (HeHe) by them. Damn good job!

    Tesla Model S has longer wheelbase I'm assuming, thus could they could fit that long, flat battery pack much easier into the vehicle. It's also a luxury sedan that doesn't have to be as low to the ground, along with it's associated parts. There was also speculation about Porsche having a 918 battery upgrade option (whether it exist now or not, if ever), thus they would need the ability to access, swap it out if so. Remember, its' a hyper car. And you know how those Germans are. They think of everything. LOL. Having it in the floorboard would be virtually impossible, arduous, and/or costly to remove. But then again, maybe the battery in the floor would be easier to remove, once raised on a lift (of course, that wouldn't negate the other logistical, layout reasons above for not having it in the first place)?

    Saying all that: 918 battery does rest on the floor near the center of the vehicle. It's just shaped more like a Rail Road Tie than a flat sheet of plywood. And because of it, the 918 has the lowest center of gravity of all the said vehicles inline with the center of it's wheels. This is one of the reasons why it handles so well.
     
  16. hootan

    hootan Karting

    Sep 29, 2014
    165
    Many thanks my friend! and Happy Easter too! I will post some of important info from Weissach as soon as possible!
    All the Best,
    Cheers!
     
  17. Bigthree

    Bigthree Karting

    Mar 9, 2015
    121
    Germany
    I am not so sure that the 918 has a lower centre of gravity than the LaF. It's batteries are also very flat and sit right behind the seats. Also the seats in the LF are much lower than the 918.
     
  18. Mj_1963217

    Mj_1963217 Karting

    Mar 4, 2013
    61
    The P1 was a customer car too, no excuse for Ferrari.
     
  19. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    What McLaren does is irrelevant.
     
  20. Valkyre

    Valkyre Karting

    Jan 26, 2015
    99
  21. CarMaven

    CarMaven Formula Junior

    May 9, 2014
    523
    Well, the 918's battery has the same configuration and position in the Porsche for starters. Who knows (Shrugs)?

    Porsche has long claimed the 918 has the lowest COG out of the three Hyper-Brids. None of them have disputed this claim to my knowledge? They say the 918's about 14 inches inline with the center of the wheel hubs. I've seen no reason to doubt this. I'm sure the Lafe is not far behind or similar. However, I haven't heard their claims, they ever claim this.

    Remember, the 918 is a purpose built white sheet endeavor, and Porsche packaged all the heaviest components at the bottom and in the center of the vehicle (not just the battery). So it would makes sense if it's COG would be a bit or smidgen lower than the LaFe's FWIW.

    Center of gravity, isn't away pure height or exterior appearance (AISUK). It also incorporates weight and how it's positioned relative to that height and movement.
     
  22. Bigthree

    Bigthree Karting

    Mar 9, 2015
    121
    Germany

    Its a difficult call. Have you seen Carlos Lago's LaF presentation: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ygBFXTf9Eo

    It's pretty interesting but if you jump to about 18:00 in the clip he explains the battery pack and the positioning of it. Looks as you have already said pretty similar. There are some good visuals of the battery positioning. He also explains why the drivers seat is fixed in the presentation.
     
  23. Scuderia980

    Scuderia980 F1 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2006
    3,636
    Mountains--Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave S. V
    factory numbers:

    LaF 14.8 inches

    918 14 inches
     
  24. kingjr9000

    kingjr9000 Formula 3

    Sep 16, 2014
    1,063
    Welcome back.
     
  25. Scuderia980

    Scuderia980 F1 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2006
    3,636
    Mountains--Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave S. V
    Hey thanks! looks like i haven't missed too much?
     

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