Just how good is Lewis Hamilton? | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Just how good is Lewis Hamilton?

Discussion in 'F1' started by asjoseph, Jan 15, 2015.

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  1. Enzojr

    Enzojr F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2013
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    Tomy
    All is good to go until you get that radio message from the boss 10 laps from the finish saying " slow down your brakes are fading" (which means let your team mate pass you)
    Somebody should document how many times this changed the outcome of a race ?
     
  2. GodSpeed33

    GodSpeed33 Karting
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    Examples? (which means let your team mate pass you)?? When? What race?
     
  3. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    But that's exactly the point. Lewis won 2 out of 3. If he was as good as you guys think he is, he would have won 3 out of 3. esp since so many people only rate button as a midfielder.

    Same with Nico....so many people said he was a midfielder, but Lewis took until the last race to wrap up the WDC and it could easily have gone the other way. PLUS, Nico got more poles than the polemeister!

    So, again, that's the point. Lewis has never dominated a team mate like the greats really do.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's fun watching you squirm.
     
  4. GodSpeed33

    GodSpeed33 Karting
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    So when did i say Lewis dominated anyone? You are making this stuff up along the way. I never said Jenson was a midfielder.
    You mean like Schumacher or Vettel who where basicly number one? Lewis never asked or had number one status wich makes his record even more impressive against not one, but two reigning world champions and beat them with equal status and shared telemetry.


    I never said Nico was a midfielder, so who are you referring to? Nico is underrated imo, he beat Schumacher who's an all time great. 3 years straight races and qually, and Lewis beat him two seasons straight. Who cares about Pole position if you cant even convert it into racewins? Nico never had qually issues like Lewis did this season so all things considered it was pretty even. He also had double the wins of his teammate wich is quite telling.


    You think its all just a big coincedence that the moment Lewis left Mclaren they where nowhere and Mercedes is suddenly second in the constructors with both titles the year later? Mclaren havent won jack **** since he left them.
     
  5. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    lol...it's not all about you. Maybe you should look at some posts from BEFORE you joined up so you'll know what i'm referring to.
     
  6. GodSpeed33

    GodSpeed33 Karting
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    So you agree with everything else i said? Good.
     
  7. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    not really. sorry. Most of it was inane.
     
  8. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Who are the greats that have dominated a teammate that has been allowed to challenge them?

    As regards to newbie posters, maybe it is a case of them realizing from the get-go that no matter what Hamilton does will never be enough, and never will be for some folk...personally I dread to think why that is the case..:eek:
     
  9. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Sure Alonso and Briatore handed him the title on a silver platter, dude you're f***** delusional. Lewis left a winning team for a team that was placed in fifth in the constructors so what the hell are you on about? Are you serious or is it just a bad case of trolling? Threatening Nico in public? Hahaha? Sure he did, tell me when where and after what session it was? Otherwise i call BULL****!

    never knew how much biased idiots roam these threads. Very dissapointing from Ferrarichat, i expected better from this site..Oh well, you guys would be ripped apart and left for dead if you would spout this **** on reddit or Autosport forums.[/QUOTE]

    Well, another idiot on my ignore list....but i do agree with you on one thing...there are too many idiots on the f.1 section, especialy those ones who have just arrived and start insulting other members simply because they have a diferent opinion.
    Stupidity can somethimes be funny, but in your case it's simply stupid and rude, and only shows how ignorant you are. end of story
     
  10. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    To be fair, it as to be said the Lewis always had very good teamates so it's normal he never dominated any of them....only very few drivers in f.1 history would have been able to dominate the team mates Lewis had.
     
  11. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Yes agreed.
     
  12. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    ok...so Lewis, at best, is marginally better than Nico and Button. (if all you do is look at points in a single season)

    However, it was very close in both cases....so he's not a god and able to walk on water, as his fans might suggest, but just another extremely talented F1 driver and one of the best in the world.

    I agree.

    But his one eyed fans still seem to enjoy exaggerating and rewriting history. That's what makes it fun to read.
     
  13. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    enough for what???
     
  14. IamRobG

    IamRobG F1 Rookie

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    Lauda with regazzoni
    Prost with Lauda in 85
    Prost with rosber
    Prost with mansell (we get it Prost was good)
    Prost with Hill
    Fittipaldi with Hulme
    Jim Clark with any teammate
    Jack brabham with Denny Hulme who later beat jack brabham.

    I can keep going if you like?
     
  15. butcher

    butcher Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2008
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    Lewis is good enough to win 2 F1 world championships, which is what is most important.

    You guys are all kidding yourselves when you try to weed out who is the best driver, in whatever era. The reality F1, is it takes a lot of factors for you to be the best (driver, car, pit crew, luck, pairing). Everyone is so professional and competitive that you have to excel in all of these factors ( 2 second pit stops-you have got to be kidding!).

    Analagous to american professional football (the ultimate team sport): The best quarterback of all time, Payton Manning has only one super bowl victory, the current best running back, Adrian Peterson, will probably never win a Super Bowl.

    In team sports, its the championships that matter. The WDC and the constructors are what it's about, and Lewis has won in both places.

    This makes Lewis "great" in my book. He is also probably the most exciting current driver to watch.
     
  16. sailquik

    sailquik Formula 3

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    Just how good is Lewis? not as good as Fernando, and that's all that matters to me given the current roster of drivers.
     
  17. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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  18. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    I just swam by him in the pool this morning. He walks on water wearing Nike brand :)
     
  19. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
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    #94 toil, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
    Lol pls tell us again how the great "Michael Schumacher" dominated nico rosberg? Senna didn't dominate Prost either...

    Most of the "greats" made a name for themselves in a great car with either **** or subservient drivers (thanks to team orders).

    Out of the current group of f1 drivers hamilton has had the toughest team mates. Alonso widely regarded as one of the best of all time. Look how alonso wiped the floor with kimi, someone previously regarded as "great". Really shows that tbe true greats (alonso and hamilton) are on an entire different level. Jenson is also a wdc and very damn consistent. When the margin between alonso and jenson isn't all that high next year all you haters will be Changing your tune. I can almost guarantee that. Jenson is one of the most underrated on the grid!

    Alonso was also flattered by number 2 team mates. That's what ferrari is about. Ask Kimi raikkonnen how he won his championship? Massa would pull aside or make a strategically bad pit stop so kimi got ahead (yeah like that's a coincidence). Yet even with all that help if Lewis's car hadn't stopped working he still would've missed out. Team orders make a driver look so much better. If mclaren had implemented team orders in 07 (in either alonso or hamiltons favour) the chosen driver would've won the wdc at a walk. Thank God they didn't thoygh...



    Now pls tell us about jackie Stewart and his team mates. After all in your eyes he's one of the best drivers of all time. Tell us all about the no name teammates he had and then how, trough your own admission, his only 'good' team mate, Cevert, was "much faster" but never passed him - effectively gifting him a wdc and a host of race wins in the dominant car. Lol...


    At the end of the day hamilton is the only driver in f1 history to beat alonso when they were team mates. Alonso has wiped the floor with his every competitor and embarrassed Schumacher into retirement by handing his asss to him in his Renault. Then poor schuey came back to get mopped up by rosberg who then in turn got mopped up by hamilton (and I'm a Schumacher fan but tbh post 2004 he was nothing special). In the last 6 races of 2014 hamilton doubled rosberggs point score. Over doubled his race wins over the course of the season. Yet some of you jokers will never see how he's one of the greats. And his career isn't half done yet...

    It's like you fellas think you've got a solid argument just because hamilton dropped ONE season to a fellow wdc whilst be was having Nicole troubles... Yeah right. Look at the drivers you hold to be "greats", look at their careers and then see the inconsistency in your reasoning.
     
  20. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    RE Schumacher only having neutered 3 legged dogs as teammates:

    Benetton:

    After just 1 race in F1 (which didn't last much beyong a few hundred meters), he got hired by Benetton to drive alongside Nelson Piquet (a 3x world champion) for the remainder of the season. He outqualified Nelson at all races, and finished just 1 point behind him in the races they did together.

    Nelson retired, and Brundle (the man who was one of Senna's main rivals in F3) and vastly experienced. Beat him solid.

    Same goes with Patrese...at the time one of (if not the most?) experienced F1 drivers and Schumi outscored him 52-20.

    In 94, his first title year, he had 3 teammates all with solid backgrounds but none could drive the car (bit like the F14t almost?). Collectively, his 3 teammates scored 11 points. Schumacher scored a frankly incredible 92.

    I don't think he had much to say when he innitially came to Ferrari about who his teammate would be. Whether he did or not, Ferrari hired the talent Irvine, who was pretty solid and even had a run at the title before Ferrari ****ed it up.

    I don't think Barrichello was particularly slow before he came to Ferrari. In fact, he was pretty damn fast. He was asked not to win at Austria 2 years later, mainly because Ferrari wanted to go for another record which was fastest title ever (they succeeded). At this point it was pretty damn clear who was the fastest.

    My point is that Schumacher has had pretty fast teammates over the years, and until he came back, dealt with all of them, some being handed a beat down their careers never really recovered from. Was he given veto power on teammates? I'm sure of it, but he could have choosen much slower teammates but didn't. As it happens, most of the very best are normally locked in with contracts with rival teams and looking at F1 history, 2 of the very best in one team seldom go well together.
     
  21. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    It's relatively well documented. Schumacher was past it at the time already but still had greatness in him, but not enough anymore. Old age does that to people. Not to mention he had quite a few car issues over the years with Mercedes.

    That said, he held up quite well compared to Rosberg. Can't be bothered to find the data for you but someone has it on here.

    Considering he was 44 (in sports terms that reads as ****ing old) he held up well, IIRC around .2 down on Rosberg throughout the season.

    Don't know the data but how much faster per lap was Ham in 2013 and 2014? Don't think the gap was that big, probably around a tenth.

    So Ham, in his prime, is only .3 faster than a pensioner, who presumably wasn't so great according to your post.
     
  22. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story....right toil?

    rewriting history again is our young toil.

    in fact, since you bring it up toil, if you add up the points for Nico and MS in MS' last year for races where MS FINISHED, he had more points than Nico....yes...the same Nico who would have won this year's WDC if Lewis' car broke down instead of his....it was that close.

    And I don't want to remind anyone which driver, out of Nico and Lewis got the most pole positions.......and one of them is meant to be the qualifying king according to his fans.

    What a laugh.
     
  23. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
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    Schumacher is a great driver and widely regarded as one of the best of all time - probably In everyone's top driver list. He certainly dropped in form around 2004 onwards but the extent of such a drop is hard to quantify...

    Robserg v Schumacher:

    Schumacher and Rosberg?s head-to-head record at Mercedes | James Allen on F1 ? The official James Allen website on F1

    The qualy results are embarrassing but nico is a bloody good qualifier. A comprehensive beating and in f1 terms a rather large one.

    Rosberg v hamilton:

    First half of 2013 Hamilton out qualified rosberg 8-2. Rosberg obviously learnt something from hamilton over the summer break because 2013 was quite an even season.

    2014 rosberg edged hamilton in qualifying but got ripped in the races. Something like 11-4 race wins. Hamilton ahead in all but a few of both car finishes. And there were question marks on those too.

    To say hamilton is barely quicker than a pensioner? Rubbish really...

    All you have to hold on to is ONE season that hamilton dropped to a fellow wdc whilst having Nicole issues. How would schumCher have faired against a wdc team mate if he had divorced his beloved corinna? Probably not very well. Schumacher and rosberg are blessed with marital stability so we may never know. From personal experience I can barely function if I have gf provlems or after bad breakups.

    The problem with you bas is you are so inconsistent with your logic. You join the bandwagon and rip all the hamilton fans that defend him (and tbh he isn't that hard to defend - an almost impeccable racing record and already widely regarded as f1s greats - look at any forum aside from ffchat or public opinion In general). Yet despite all this you defend kimi so much.

    Hamilton lost one season to a wdc and you quote that? Kimi scored half he points of mclarens quintessential number 2 driver Mr David coulthard in their first season as team mates. But nobody quotes that primarily because kimi has more comprehensive beat downs we can reference (worst season performance vis a vis a team mate by a wdc in f1 history being his 2014 accolade) and also because he whipped coulthard for a few years after his first dismal effort. Similarly, overall hamilton comprehensively beat jenson. Look at the qualy, look at the wins, the ahead in two car finishes. Gf provlems took his focus and resulted in some inconsistency. The only blemish in a stellar career.

    As for the asinine concept that kimi is almost godly and unbeatable in a car that suits his style? The lotus, in his own words, suited his driving style.

    Grosjean v kimi:

    Insight: Raikkonen and Grosjean?s head-to-head record at Lotus | James Allen on F1 ? The official James Allen website on F1

    Look at the last half of 2013 where kimi got waxed in his ideal car. Look at the qualifying results also. And this is against grosjean. The same grosjean who barely edged out maldanado in 2014... So kimi in a car that suits his style performed mediocrely against a driver who is at best a journey man?

    Now all this anti kimi may seem irrelevant to you but I'm brining it up so you can see your own inconsistency. You count hamilton out for one season that he dropped to a wdc yet look at who you defend so ardently. It's always good to defend and be passionate about drivers you like but it's idiotic to also not defend drivers who have an almost blemish free record.

    Schumacher came off one of his most successful seasons in 2004 and was beaten then by alonso fair and square to 2 titles in a car imo that was probably not even as good as the ferrari. This same alonso has decimated every team mate he has ever come up against...including the mighty kimi raikkonnen by 3 times the points. The only driver to beat him...lewis Hamilton.
     
  24. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
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    Schumacher is a great driver and widely regarded as one of the best of all time - probably In everyone's top driver list. He certainly dropped in form around 2004 onwards but the extent of such a drop is hard to quantify...

    Robserg v Schumacher:

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/schumacher-and-rosberg’s-head-to-head-record-at-mercedes/

    The qualy results are embarrassing but nico is a bloody good qualifier. A comprehensive beating and in f1 terms a rather large one.

    Rosberg v hamilton:

    First half of 2013 Hamilton out qualified rosberg 8-2. Rosberg obviously learnt something from hamilton over the summer break because 2013 was quite an even season.

    2014 rosberg edged hamilton in qualifying but got ripped in the races. Something like 11-4 race wins. Hamilton ahead in all but a few of both car finishes. And there were question marks on those too.

    To say hamilton is barely quicker than a pensioner? Rubbish really...

    All you have to hold on to is ONE season that hamilton dropped to a fellow wdc whilst having Nicole issues. How would schumCher have faired against a wdc team mate if he had divorced his beloved corinna? Probably not very well. Schumacher and rosberg are blessed with marital stability so we may never know. From personal experience I can barely function if I have gf provlems or after bad breakups.

    The problem with you bas is you are so inconsistent with your logic. You join the bandwagon and rip all the hamilton fans that defend him (and tbh he isn't that hard to defend - an almost impeccable racing record and already widely regarded as f1s greats - look at any forum aside from ffchat or public opinion In general). Yet despite all this you defend kimi so much.

    Hamilton lost one season to a wdc and you quote that? Kimi scored half he points of mclarens quintessential number 2 driver Mr David coulthard in their first season as team mates. But nobody quotes that primarily because kimi has more comprehensive beat downs we can reference (worst season performance vis a vis a team mate by a wdc in f1 history being his 2014 accolade) and also because he whipped coulthard for a few years after his first dismal effort. Similarly, overall hamilton comprehensively beat jenson. Look at the qualy, look at the wins, the ahead in two car finishes. Gf provlems took his focus and resulted in some inconsistency. The only blemish in a stellar career.

    As for the asinine concept that kimi is almost godly and unbeatable in a car that suits his style? The lotus, in his own words, suited his driving style.

    Grosjean v kimi:

    Insight: Raikkonen and Grosjean?s head-to-head record at Lotus | James Allen on F1 ? The official James Allen website on F1

    Look at the last half of 2013 where kimi got waxed in his ideal car. Look at the qualifying results also. And this is against grosjean. The same grosjean who barely edged out maldanado in 2014... So kimi in a car that suits his style performed mediocrely against a driver who is at best a journey man?

    Now all this anti kimi may seem irrelevant to you but I'm brining it up so you can see your own inconsistency. You count hamilton out for one season that he dropped to a wdc yet look at who you defend so ardently. It's always good to defend and be passionate about drivers you like but it's idiotic to also not defend drivers who have an almost blemish free record.

    Schumacher came off one of his most successful seasons in 2004 and was beaten then by alonso fair and square to 2 titles in a car imo that was probably not even as good as the ferrari. This same alonso has decimated every team mate he has ever come up against...including the mighty kimi raikkonnen by 3 times the points. The only driver to beat him...lewis Hamilton.
     
  25. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Since when was the E21 Kimi's ideal car?

    Nevermind, argument doesn't matter because I'm sure you're right and I'm completely wrong because you know everything.

    You are so ****ing idiotic in your posts you still refuse to acknowledge that I do think ham is an excellent driver. I just think there are more drivers who happen to be as excellent or near as good. But you like arguing so much that you look over it constantly.
     

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