2010 Cali sells 97k on eBay

No reserve auctions lots only bring in high values when bidders engage in a bidding war for what bidders perceive to be a unique opportunity. It's that simple. Otherwise, "no reserve" lots invite low bids.

The used market is as you say being established for these cars but I don't think there are more sellers than buyers. High annual mileage cars do convey a different picture of how the car was used, to knowledgeable buyers.

For commodities, it would definitely be an issue of supply and demand but these cars are not commodities and much depends on how the seller markets his car. Selling a car in a no reserve auction lot may be expedient but it does not convey confidence in the car's quality. The "laws of economy" are not simple when you deal in luxury goods, any good economist will tell you that. If you want to sell your FCar like a Ford Fiesta, you throw the luxury aspect out the window - hence Manheim auctions fetch low prices because they roll these cars through the corral like cattle auctions. All semblance of mystique or respect is thrown out the window.

You may think you are always selling your car to the same market but market information is not transparent to all buyers and many buyers do not even look at eBay and have no idea what dealer auctions are about. They are just looking to buy a great-looking FCar at a discount from dealer prices.

In the end, it's all about presentation and patience. Like renovations, if you are in a hurry, prepare to pay through the nose and swallow the mistakes. Unfortunately, we live in impatient times.

 

It's a very good idea to use dealers.

Many car owners sell their cars on consignment. If you owe nothing on your cars and remove road coverage you can channel your beauty through a dealer. Test drives can be arranged after the buyer is screened.

 

Is that the gothamdreamcars in L.A. and Vegas? I only see mid-engine FCars (F430/Scud/458) on their lists. Maybe you mean some other rental fleet?

 

+1. Too many unpredictable variables to selling an exotic yourself.

 

Yeah, I'm not encouraged either.

He comes across like a bean counter to me. And, I think a lot of the windfall from Chrysler/Dodge was likely inherited from DNA that Daimler-Benz injected into those brands before they got cold feet, not so much anything the sweater guy did with his numbers.

 

Dealers will not typically retail high mileage cars. They will wholesale them. They don't want the responsibility of something going wrong. So manheim is indeed a pretty good indicator for high mileage cars after all. Your choice is either ebay or wholesale through dealer. The california Cali was right there on price. EBay bitters include retail and wholesale buyers. There is a substantial number of both looking at the same car at the same time. Gentlemen, I submit, that is the market, regardless of reserve or no reserve auctions which will draw more of both type of buyers to that auction. Indeed it will draw more than reserve auction on Mannheim because retail buyers are not privy to those.

 

Happy holidays Michael....

Do you think Sergio with ambitions of increasing production and eroding exclusivity would help our pre-Sergio models?

He wants to be steve jobs in his sweaters but he has charisma whatsoever. I think we might look back at his time at the helm as the leaderless days of Ferrari. He has no ties to the culture or heritage.

 

Well, 45k miles is high for a 4-year-old FCar, so there will be very few such cars selling at the dealers but I had a look at West Coast dealer used car inventory and they do have other cars around or exceeding that mileage, even a Porsche, Land Rover, Bentley (Vegas) and a Dodge Durango (Seattle). I mean, would you list a 2007 Durango with 79,400 miles over a 2010 Cali with 45,000 miles?

So I don't think it's an issue of dealers not wanting responsibility for high mileage used exotics. This would be especially true if the dealership is where you bought and serviced your car. They would know the car intimately and should be very happy to sell your car for you.

Worse comes to worst, in the unlikely situation where they consider your car being in rougher condition than they would like to associate with their dealership, they will move the vehicle to their 2nd-tier used car lot. For that to happen, your car would likely have an accident history and some dodgy repairs, which would not happen unless you took the car somewhere else to fix. So if your dealer refuses to consign your car, it's probably not because they don't like the 45k mileage and I would also agree with you, in that situation you best recourse is either to trade the car in (meaning the car ends up in a dealer auction) or if you are not replacing the car, auction it on eBay.

Finally IMO, I would say drive your car as often as it gives you its unique pleasure but I would also say, don't commute or go shopping with it unless it is truly pleasurable in FCar fashion. It's not a good way to "spend" the mileage on an exotic sitting in gridlock or running over bad asphalt. There are other vehicles that handle those duties with far greater ease, greater pleasure at much lower cost (and pain).

 

Thanks Ron, and a Merry Christmas to you and everyone here too!

I think the answer to your question would lie partly in how Sergio intends to increase production. Does he mean to move the added volume to Asia (China) only, meaning to specific geographical locations which are perceived to be underdeveloped FCar markets? Or does he mean adding extra models? Or does he mean just cranking out more units for each model?

In the first situation, it would not affect the number of cars in most current markets. People perceive exclusivity in a local sense. For example, it doesn't really affect my Cali30's exclusivity if the Chinese market suddenly receives 3x the number of cars it used to.

In the second case, he would have to be careful how those extra models affect the existing ones, taking care not to devalue them with redundant models or poorly-executed designs. This may bestow pre-Sergio era cars with a positive nostalgic value, especially for the Ferrariristi.

In the last case, I think it would result in some loss of exclusivity and perceived value in the established FCar markets if simply more FCars are seen on the roads. It doesn't even have to be the same model as our cars. Just seeing more FCars will do it because I think most people perceive FCars as a marque, not as specific models, simply because they don't know the various models. Most people won't even know the Cali30 is the predecessor to the CaliT.

Amongst FCar aficionados, it does matter how many units of a given model were made. So if there are only 5,000 Cali30s (my semi-educated guess of 2,500 p.a.) and Sergio cranks CaliT production up to 3,700 p.a., that could potentially result in 14,800 CaliTs between 2015 and 2018, instead of otherwise 10,000. Does that make the Cali30 a rarer, suddenly more desirable FCar from the NA V8 era? It might, especially if people also yearn for the NA engines no longer feasible and available because of govt regulations for greener emission numbers.

Finally, to add to your last comment, what irks me the most about Sergio is the lack of respect he showed for what LdM did for Ferrari. I think that lack of respect is most worrisome because LdM's vision was to protect the brand value and the perceived exclusivity of its cars. If that vision was cast aside then what does that mean? So the brash manner with which Sergio swapped in his vision of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. above concerns for Ferrari as a crown jewel is worrisome. In my youth I have on occasion found myself working for people who made lateral moves in blind pursuit of personal success, at great expense to great companies. I hope there is adequate oversight in place at Ferrari S.p.A.

 

it was the gothamdreamcars california - and yes, it was located on the west coast..

I think it might still be listed on their website, if you check