Ex-Scuderia Filipinetti 275GTB Comp s/n 09079 at Bonhams Scottsdale 2015 | FerrariChat

Ex-Scuderia Filipinetti 275GTB Comp s/n 09079 at Bonhams Scottsdale 2015

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by T308, Oct 27, 2014.

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  1. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
    Honorary

    Sep 7, 2004
    2,493
    West Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwin K. Niles
    Once owned by my friend Jim Wallace, who sub-rented space in a large building for his resto shop. An employee of the landlord left a space heater on overnight, which caused the building to burn. This car was left as a body-less hulk; Jim was just heart-broken. Great to see that it has been brought back from the dead, but I wonder how that history will affect the price?

    As you may know, I had one of these for a while, and my wife still goads me occasionally for getting rid of it, as it was one of her faves. Mine, too. Completely drivable, but very racy at the same time.
     
  2. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2012
    966
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Le Monde Edmond
  3. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

    Jun 24, 2004
    10,117
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Marnix
    if this history is properly disclosed, it will have influence. The car will have a completely new body and who knows whatelse is replaced. But then again, being burned to the ground didn't hurt 250 TR 0666 much.
     
  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,737
    History of 09079 is very well known and nobody is holding back anything. Yes, of course, it was rebodied. Many race cars went thru a rebody. But it was rebodied by exactly the same people who initially built the car (Egidio (father) and Roberto (son) Brandoli in Italy, formerly of Carrozzeria Scaglietti in Modena). So, please, NO paranoia and no b.s. this time. The car is good with great and multiple Le Mans history. Absolutely continuous ownership history, no law suits, nothing. Perfect restoration.
    All it needs is a new owner.

    Marcel Massini
     
  5. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    33,014
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    If the Mcqueen is a $10m car, then this is what? $12m? $15m?
     
  6. margarita

    margarita Formula 3

    Mar 20, 2011
    1,617
    usa
    Beautifull
     
  7. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
    Honorary

    Sep 7, 2004
    2,493
    West Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwin K. Niles
    To me, the 90xx cars are far, far superior to a standard 275 GTB of any other type. But the McQueen name seems to excite a lot of people, so who knows? I'm guessing that Andrew is in the ball park. And as usual, I don't disagree with Marcel, and didn't intend to open the proverbial can of worms. I just couldn't resist making mention of the fire, as I was the first person Jim called, and still remember wading through the slush and mud in my best shoes. Jim had a small biz of restoring Sunbeam Tigers, and a lot of customer cars went to heaven that same night. I guess that's why God made insurance.
     
  8. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

    Jun 24, 2004
    10,117
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Marnix
    That is all fine and well but don't you think potential buyers would have prefered if the car never got trapped in a burning building and that this will reflect in the price?
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Did this car recently NS at the RM auction or was that a different one?

    Wasn't there some complaint about the shape of the the body vs. the original?

    I agree that MANY race cars had difficult lives and personally I think all that matters is full disclosure but I agree the degree of difficulty a car encountered effects it's price but as time goes by I think that lessens.

    For example the recent 250 GTO auction was at about 1/2 of what a perfect one might bring.
    At one time IMO it would have been at 1/3.
     
  10. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Thanks for describing what you remember happening. History from someone who was there is often lost in the fog of time and often glossed over by sellers.
     
  11. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

    Jun 24, 2004
    10,117
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Marnix
    I also think the context of the difficulties might play a part. For instance 2735GT loosing it's original body in a crash is different to losing the body in a burning building, far from the racetrack.
     
  12. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,690
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    The story's less romantic but the effect is the same isn't it?
     
  13. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,858
    This car is incredible.
     
  14. babci

    babci Formula Junior
    BANNED

    May 19, 2011
    281
    +1
    Post the re-body & restoration Brandoli work performed in 1985-1987 an exceptional ground up exacting re-restoration to original correct Le Mans winning specifications (including body shape and all mechanicals) was performed in 2006 under the direction of Richard Freshman/Fossil Motorsports. That restoration resulted in a 2nd in the Ferrari Completion Class M-2 at Pebble Beach in 06 narrowly losing to the ex Betz and Peters John Shirley TR 666.
     
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Funny that those two should take 1 and 2 at Pebble.
     
  16. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Not really.

    A period prang by Bandini is a bit different than a years later event caused by an errant space heater.
     
  17. babci

    babci Formula Junior
    BANNED

    May 19, 2011
    281
    #18 babci, Oct 28, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
    You are absolutely correct. Damage is damage. Makes no difference if the damage occurred in a race, fell off the road, or fell off a truck day one or twenty years later. Replacement is replacement. It is no longer original, that is the bottom line and the current market does not seem to care about it very seriously or discount it all that much. Example: No race history, fire trashed, resurrected, re-bodied and triple restored LM 6045 sells for 11+ Mil. RM Monterey August 2014.
     
  18. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

    Jun 24, 2004
    10,117
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Marnix
    "No race history" is key here. I believe when it comes to competitioncars, it is very relevant whether or not the damage occured during it's competitionlife or afterwards.

    I have no idea how any of this will reflect on 9079, but I don't buy the notion that it doesn't really matter when a historically important competitioncar goes down in flames while parked in some warehouse, just because it is not unheard of for a competitioncar to receive a new body.
     
  19. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,690
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    The history is different and history certainly adds to value but if the car was re bodied by the same outfit that would have done it in period how different is the end product?
     
  20. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3

    Apr 1, 2004
    1,821
    Wolfeboro NH
    Full Name:
    Thomas E Shaughnessy
    Rules have changed since then

    Results would be different today
     
  21. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2008
    1,397
    USA
    Full Name:
    Gentleman Racer
    In my humble opinion, history is part of any car, or collectible object. It can add value, especially with competition cars.

    Here's how I look at it:

    Private first class Scarelli was killed July 1944 while holding off a platoon of enemy soldiers in St. Lo., wounded in the head, shoulder and leg, he kept the enemy at bay while his fellow soldiers escaped harm.

    OR:

    Private first class Scarelli was killed by a passing bus July 1944.


    Usually the story of "fate" maters, sometimes not.


    A wonderful car with full disclosure, I'd be proud to have it.
     
  22. babci

    babci Formula Junior
    BANNED

    May 19, 2011
    281
    Public sale auction results, Ferrari Classiche Red Book issuing results and FCA show results (LM 6045 La Coppa Per Dodici Cilindri at Cavallino 2014 and Cris Cox re-bodied Ferrari 250 GTO 3445 Best of Show FCA International Meet & Concours, Corning & Watkins Glen August/September 2002) so far don't agree with that line of opinion. Only the Scottsdale auction results for 9079 will be relevant. Everything else is just speculation.
     
  23. Terra

    Terra F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    3,677
    That was in 2007, not 2002. Correct spelling is C-H-R-I-S.
     
  24. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

    Jun 24, 2004
    10,117
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Marnix
    The market on the 250GTO is downright crazy. Nothing seems to stick in terms of a negative influence on the value. People just want a 250 GTO.

    And indeed, it is all speculation. I haven't said otherwise.
     

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