Thrashing a breadvan | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Thrashing a breadvan

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by DaveC20853, Mar 24, 2014.

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  1. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2008
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    Kim
    Watched

    Enough said
     
  2. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
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    george burgess
    Ok So I did race a Morgan +4 briefly in 1961. At Thompson a guy driving an XK 140 with the radio on, would you believe, spun, hit my car and that was the end of my career on the track except for a brief try a few years later with an XK E.Money rather than skill or enthusiasm was the issue. The nearest I can come to the on track experience since was owning and driving a Ferrari in Italy for four years.Despite their reputation Italians for the most part are very good at speed drivers.I have seen many more examples of bad driving right here in the good old U S A .Now. from what you have said you seem to be a pretty good "watcher" .This whole controversy has come up over one example by one driver of what I considered a poor example of how a very expensive and and valuable car was driven. There are plenty of examples of this by countless others recently and throughout the history of motoring . As I have said previously post some clips of his better efforts. I am sure there are some. Also there are plenty examples of really great competition driving out there from today's F1,Nascar road races,GT events Historics etc. So Mr. "watcher" show us what you got. As they say. pictures can be more important than words. Regards tongascrew tongascrew
     
  3. jcosta79

    jcosta79 Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2011
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    LaJonathan
    I got to ride along with a pro racing driver (Lou Gigliotti) on a track in a road car (C6 Z06) a few years ago. We did 15 laps on a track with the other advanced drivers who were there that day (but no other pro racing drivers) and we were passing them like they were standing still. They all had slick tires and full track-car setups, and we were in Lou's daily driver, run-flat street tires and all! When a car is on the limit, it's always just about to lose control. His hands were NEVER stationary, not on the straights and certainly not under braking. In the corners, the wheel was dancing in his hands as he was constantly making small corrections.
     
  4. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    Just as it should be. I am sure both hands properly positioned on the wheel.Nice to see it done well. tongascrew
     
  5. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    I did have a short period of racing a Morgan in 1961which was cut short at Thompson when the driver of an XK 140 spun in front of me an damaged my car. Turned out he had been driving with his radio on! Later I had a short stint with an E Type. Then the money ran out. Your description of driving a vintage race car is familiar.Just one problem. Fun to watch but not fast.Max revs, wheelspin,oversteer,corrections etc just aren't fast.Watch Moss driving that little Cortina. That's how it is done. If you watched the F 1 in Bahrain you would have seen some of the best driving there is. Why not tell us your experiences on the race track. tongascrew
     
  6. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    Well, I never mentioned to have race-experiance - but I drove Maserati 300S, 250F, 450S, T61, Maserati Bora Gr IV, Ferrari 250GTO and 250LM in the last 8-10 years and recently an BMW M1 Procar. All on circuits and quite fast (OK, not as fast as Max Werner, Senna, Prost or "Schumacker"...:)). My experience in race cars is that way that I can recognise Max`very talented driving in the Breadvan and other great racing cars.
     
  7. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    My comments about Max Werner were based on one video. I have heard enough recently about him to conclude he is a well respected member of the community. His name also has popped up recently is a number of my individual Ferrari sn files.I have asked several times for other in car videos of his driving. So far no takers. So I will close this out with the understanding that that what I saw was not typical and just a not so good example. Regards tongascrew
     
  8. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    ....now you got it :)!! Great!
     
  9. Kinimod1210

    Kinimod1210 Karting

    Jan 30, 2008
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    D.B.
    here´s a video from Mugello :) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Pr3Yhu3nY
     
  10. SteviePPS

    SteviePPS Karting

    May 11, 2013
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    #85 SteviePPS, Apr 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ah yes, parked in the paddock in the 2010 heatwave looking tiny. Check! Wasn't a 599 that caused the visual shrinking for me though...
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  11. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    Can't really see much of the driver's work but just listening to the engine and watching the attitude of the car in the corners this is a nice piece of driving. The dice with the Cobra very nice. I can assume this was Werner driving? Thanks tongascrew
     
  12. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

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    It's such a nice circuit in a beautiful setting
     
  13. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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  14. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

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  15. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Might they be just regular "snaps" that are normally chromed?

    It is possible that for noise limits, they reverted to a more "standard system".

    Regards, Alberto
     
  16. Impuls2000

    Impuls2000 Rookie

    Jul 23, 2005
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    Maximilian Werner
    Dear All,

    I just came across this thread today here on Ferrari Chat, as I haven't been here for quite a while. But I have to admit that I am more than impressed that a simple video, which was intended to be fun can cause such a big discussion. I would like to answer to all the points that were made, as I do think that I am qualified to do so, as I have raced the Breadvan for quite a while and even though it is not ours anymore it will always be one of my favorite...
    First a quick word to wbaumer and wolf... I am deeply impressed by the way you are/were defending me and even though we have not had many common points in the past, I would like to thank you and tell that you have highly raised my respect for you.
    First I would like to answer a few questions about the technical performance on the Breadvan. Sadly the power was never as high as you think it it. When I last raced it the max power was 312bhp @ 7900rpm (you might not believe me, but here are some top speed comparisons from Goodwood 2011. Top speed is taken at the end of the straight coming out of a slow corner. Breadvan Top Speed 138,9mph Drogo 138,9mph Daytona Coupe 155,7mph http://www.tsl-timing.com/barc/2011/113721trt.pdf) We have always used the original engine and have never bored it out... The advantage the Breadvan has got is high speed corners where it performs extremely well, because of its low center of gravity and its aerodynamic shape. I wish that it would have a 4ltr or similar, because I am convinced that it would be pretty unbeatable than.
    As wbaumer and some others have already mentioned it was not the first time I ever sat in a historic racing car... If I count right I have done more than 100 historic races alone in the past 13 years and you might believe me or not, I have never destroyed any mechanical component, except one throttle which I bent... I always ask the mechanics/owner what limit I am allowed to use and never exceed these.
    Comparing my driving style to Fangio, Senna, Schumacher or any other Formula 1 World Champions impresses me a lot, but I do not think that this is right... Even though I started at the age of 10, I am not as good as one of the above otherwise I would be Formula 1 World Champion myself. I am though convinced that I am doing very well in historic racing and am proud to have raced cars like Maserati 150S, 250S, 300S, 250F, Ferrari 250LM, 246SP, 246S and many other great cars and I hope to continue doing so and I am more than happy to help anybody to make him go quicker and safer around any race circuit. @tongascrew even though I have to admit that I had a handful occasions where I was not 100% in control of the car (but I am sure not to be the only one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK9nzHermeA), I can promise that there was not a single moment on the Breadvan video where I was not. I will post some other videos at the end of this thread to give you an idea of my driving. But I am not sure if you will understand the differences as I usually do not respect criticism from people who have absolutely no experience doing things themselves. And I do not count one race as having had that...
    Why don't you go out and try it yourselves ? What are you scared of ? Loosing ? Embarrassing yourselves ?
    I can tell you to do it anyway, because than people start taking your criticism serious.

    I hope that this was not to long and did not bore you lot to death, but I needed to give you all an answer and hope you understand...

    Kind regards,

    Max Werner

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3J-eVgNQww

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrMdKFL1SCk&list=UUCU_c_e9O0J71uZHGb3qLkw

    Porsche 908 Video
     
  17. Impuls2000

    Impuls2000 Rookie

    Jul 23, 2005
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    Maximilian Werner
    There is a big difference between Qualifying and a Race. In qualifying you squeeze out all the potential for one lap and hope to be on Pole.
    Whereas in a race you are usually a second a lap slower as you will try making the car go the distance without problems...
     
  18. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    #93 bigodino, Aug 8, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks Max for your posts and for exhibiting the Breadvan! :)

    Here you are at Goodwood 2011 at St Mary's corner. It looked fun from the outside!
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  19. Impuls2000

    Impuls2000 Rookie

    Jul 23, 2005
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    Maximilian Werner
    What a great pictue !!! That brings back some great memories....
    I wish to be part of the TT Race this year with the Breadvan again...
    But I will be there racing the Maserati 250F V12... At least sound wise it will be close ;-)
     
  20. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

    Aug 31, 2002
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    Thank you Max for sharing your comments and for recording the video to give us a glimpse of the experience. It's amazing to watch and I suspect the audio track would do well if it was released on iTunes :)
     
  21. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
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    Mar 8, 2003
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    #96 Wolfgang, Aug 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hello Max,

    here are some more memories from an event we have both joined in 2006. Tour Inter Europe org. by Helmut.
    Wonderful 3 days Event, awesome great & rare vintage Ferraris and drivers.
    It was a pleasure to (try) to follow you with my testarossa.
    I believe you just got the breadvan to europe and it was one of the very first drive outs on public roads (not on the track).
    More pics from the Event & your "Brötchenwagen" hier:
    lamborghini-diablo.de
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  22. Impuls2000

    Impuls2000 Rookie

    Jul 23, 2005
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    Maximilian Werner
    Thanks Wolfgang for these awesome pics... The rally took place just a few weeks after we got the Breadvan from the US. And driving to the rally was actually the first time I ever sat in it...
    I think it was on the first day of the rally that the Breadvan started misbehaving ;-) The ignition lock broke down so we always short circuited it, then we had a slow puncture and the wipers only worked when they wanted to (this actually happened as well in Goodwood 2011 in poring rain), while most people would have started hating this car, it was the moment when I fell in love, because I had the feeling that it had its own character...

    BTW: I havens seen Mr Schnug around... Is he still active ? Do you know how he is ?

    Kind regards,

    Max
     
  23. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
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    Max,
    I remember very well all the "misbehavings" of your breadvan during this rally.
    But you fixed all the problems in the afternoon at the hangar.
    Lets say it was and still is a character car;)

    Helmut Schnug: Last time I have met him was at the Uwe Meissner Modena Track Days, Nürburgring 2007. He changed his email and mobil so we sadly lost contact.
    He was and hopefully still is a great guy, gentleman, photographer and vintage car enthusiast.

    CU & Best
     
  24. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
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    george burgess
    My apologies for my comments about your driving on one particularly occasion.I am from the "old school" and watching this particular clip I found quite scary. I received a number of critical comments about my opinions and am now better informed. I now have a greater appreciation of your experience with these machines and your expertise. It is very nice to know that this one situation was the exception. Your contributions to the cause I now understand are impressive to say the least and I wish you continued successes. I am looking forward to completing my eight years of collecting and collating.Rebel Rebel will be one of the first volumes I will sit down with. tongascrew
     
  25. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
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    Max

    Thank you for your comments and the video. Monte Shalett gave me one of the highlights of my Motorsport life by driving the Breadvan at speed during one of the French quarter Classic events in New Orleans. I was a bit responsible for coaxing Monte to awake her and bring her back to New Orleans after a long sleep in Atlanta. Some of our French Quarter Classic events I believe added to her experiences. At one point we had both 0808 (the 62 winning TR) and the breadvan on track at a dinky raceway in the middle of the bayou. (Both cars lived about a mile from each other in A suburb of New Orleans. The Breadvan at full chat with side pipes it was such a glorious sound and feeling. I was amazed at how easy the car is to drive at speed. I spend a lot of time with that car, fell in love, and helped Monte and Marc Sonnery with a lot of the research while Monte owned it. To me at least its one of the most interesting cars on the planet. Its lived an amazing life. I can admit I was equally thrilled and frightened while watching your video. I'm glad to hear you could do that and leave an envelope of safety. Bravo!
     

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