New electronic ignition installation - NODIZ | FerrariChat

New electronic ignition installation - NODIZ

Discussion in '308/328' started by itiejim, Feb 23, 2014.

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  1. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    #1 itiejim, Feb 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    During a major service this winter I decided it was time to refresh the ignition on my '78 Euro GTS. It's fitted with the single electronic ignition distributor on the back bank, so about as good as it gets on our cars. However, the cost and complication of servicing it properly lead me to consider options and I have ended up fitting a modern, mappable 3 dimensional ignition system provided by "NODIZ" in the UK. NODIZ Pro - Technical & Guides

    Essentially the "third dimension" of a 3D system means that the amount of ignition advance can be changed on the basis of engine load (or throttle position) rather than simply engine speed, as is the case with a mechanical system. The benefits of electronic ignition and advance have been well discussed here; however, by allowing advance to remain independent of engine speed, further gains can be achieved in terms of flexibility and economy. Outright performance at wide open throttle will not benefit.

    The kit from NODIZ comes with a trigger wheel, crank position sensor, Ford type coil packs, basic wiring loom and ECU and they will also load up a base map. I got the standard (2D) map loaded on to mine to ensure that the car was safe to run prior to remapping. I needed to buy a separate throttle position sensor (used a Bosch one) and some correct plugs to attach the coils and sensors.

    There are a number of bespoke items required to complete the installation including:

    * Blanking plate to seal cam covers where original distributor has been removed.
    * Crank position sensor mount
    * Throttle position sensor mount
    * Coil pack mount - also used to mount the ECU

    I kept various scans & drawings etc of these items which I could probably get a batch produced of if anyone wants to do something similar. I guess it’d probably be worth doing if ten or so people were interested. PM me if you want me to look into it.

    I wanted to retain a standard look and worked out that, having removed the two original coils from the bulkhead, I could make up a rectangular aluminium plate, mounted on the original coil studs but with rubber grommets in the mount to take out any vibration, and hang the replacement coil packs and ECU there. This means that, even once the distributor has been removed, with the distributor heat shield back in place the car looks standard at first glance and would be easy to revert back to standard specification without any messy extra holes etc.

    The trigger wheel is a standard 36-1 item. I removed the crank front pulley and gave both items to my local machine shop to machine and shrink fit appropriately. The missing tooth needs to be located at 90 degrees before the TDC position for cylinders 1-4. As with most things, accuracy is important, however, if you're a few degrees out there is a function within the ECU to adjust the firing position to ensure that the spark is fired at exactly TDC, a useful and thoughtful addition. I made a crank position sensor which holds the sensor at the appropriate distance (cigarette paper thickness) away from the trigger wheel. Obviously, with such tight clearances you need to make sure that this little sucker isn't going to vibrate or move causing the sensor to either touch the wheel or loose signal. I used a piece of L section aluminium to prevent corrosion between the alloy cam belt cover and the bracket, though I guess a piece of painted steel would be OK too.

    I considered whether to use a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor or a TPS (throttle position sensor) and eventually settled on a TPS. I researched this online, spoke to Matt at NODIZ and based my decision on the practical differences between the two balanced against the ease of fitment. There are no commercially available mounts to fit a TPS sensor to our DCNF carbs, so I had to fabricate one. It sits on the right hand front carb and just requires removal of the carb to fit slightly longer studs.

    The kit does come with HT leads, however, they were not really suitable. NODIZ, to their credit, did provide me with some loose HT wire and fittings to make my own up. In the end though I sourced parts from Magnecor who make great quality HT leads and made my own up. Without the original distributor caps to constrain me I was able to use 8mm lead without issues.

    Wiring the system is really just a case of getting the wires on the loom the right length and fitting plugs securely in the appropriate position. Once this is done everything plugs and powers up straight away. There is a simple procedure to calibrate the TPS and then check that the system is firing exactly at TDC by turning the engine over with a strobe light attached. A note of caution here; you need to ensure that the shielded crank position sensor wire is kept well away from the HT leads otherwise electrical interference causes odd spark timing events - as me how I found out...

    Due to the dreadful weather we've had over here recently, I've yet to drive the car. However, there is no question that it fires easier and has a more steady tick over than before. I've got it booked in for a full remapping session with M-Tech Automotive, the parent company of NODIZ, who will do this on their rolling road and hope to report further in the future.

    I know that there various options for electronic ignition with different pros and cons. For me this looked like a sensible approach which allowed me to save money by developing my own fittings and gives me the benefits of a proper 3D ignition and local product support. I have no affiliation with NODIZ, but, based on my experience to date, would recommend them for what appears to be a high quality product and good customer support.

    ETA - the only issue that I have noted with this is that the rev counter does not run off of the ECU output. I have discussed this with the supplier who are confident they can resolve this with a diode set up when I go down to have the car set up on the rolling road. In the meantime, the Android app which links your phone to the ECU and works as a dashboard (giving a rev counter among other other things) has been very useful!
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  2. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

    Nov 25, 2010
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    Very nice.
     
  3. lostbowl

    lostbowl Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2009
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    Tom
    Nice write up but where did you source it from and do they supply support? Lost
     
  4. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,171
    Atlanta
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    John!
    That's precisely how I had mine set up for a little while. Nodiz uses the same box as megajolt uses, only nodiz is obviously much better!
     
  5. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    I got it direct from Motorsport Electronics in the UK: NODIZ Pro | Standalone Ignition Only ECU

    They were great with technical support, I had a few questions as I was fitting it and spoke directly to the designer / boss Matt who was very helpful.

    Nodiz uses the same, Ford type coil packs as the Megajolt system, but it doesn't need the Eidis unit which makes it simpler and smaller. The ECU is a completely different unit from the Megajolt system.

    You can download the software to map it yourself should you wish to and it's been very easy to set up. I've not done one of these installations before and, other than some initial interference between the crank sensor wire and the HT leads causing spurious firing events, it went very well.
     
  6. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,171
    Atlanta
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    John!
    How much timing are you dialing in by 3000rpm? I have great success giving stock engines up to 34 degrees and the on up to 38 or even 39 degrees at 6000rpm and beyond.
     
  7. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    Can't remember offhand, I just used the standard ignition advance map which is in the handbook.

    I guess that, with the flexibility and accuracy of an electronic system, there should be some good gains, but I'm a bit reluctant to start messing around with it until I've got it on a rolling road and can really see what's happening to the AFR and the results it gives.

    I'm taking it down to be mapped either next week or at the beginning of April - just waiting to see what the weather looks like before deciding whether to put the car back on the road for March or April...
     
  8. lostbowl

    lostbowl Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2009
    1,246
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    Tom
    Thanks for the info! She is still running fine but I must be proactive in my old age! Lost
     
  9. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    Yes, mine was running fine too, just got carried away with my pro-active servicing!
     
  10. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,844
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
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    Steve W.
    Interesting installation. It looks like a similar setup generally to the Electromotive system I installed in my former '78 GTS (US model).

    On thing that jumped out at me was the way the cable is connected to the crank sensor that is mounted on the timing belt cover. I see what looks like a yellow connector pulling out of the black shrink wrap close to the sensor. It looks to be like its being pulled upward and out of the shrink wrap. My concern would be it coming loose, or moisture and dirt getting in there. You might want to take a closer look at that, make sure the cable is properly seated and not under stress, and is sealed against the elements.

    Best of luck and let us know how it goes as you drive it.
     
  11. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    Yes, I wasn't happy with it either and, in the end, hard wired it to avoid any future issues.
     
  12. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jun 2, 2004
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    Nice work - the 3D mapping really does make sense.
     
  13. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Awesome. Not to be a debby-downer, but is that a safe location from water, etc?
     
  14. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
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    Jun 2, 2004
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    I think it should be good, the original aluminium shield has been retained. (top left hand corner of engine bay in the 4th picture)
     
  15. chris_columbia

    chris_columbia Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2008
    814
    Columbia MD
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    Chris
    If they can make a conversion box for the tach, we would have a fairly low cost ignition system.
     
  16. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    The unit is supposed to be water resistant and is covered by the shield anyway, so it should be ok.

    Once I've had the car mapped and resolved the tacho issue I'll update this thread with the solution we found.
     
  17. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    Well, I picked the car up from M-Tech Automotive today, the sister company of Motorsport Electronics who make the NODIZ, after having it mapped on the rolling road there.

    Matt, the creator of the NODIZ, dealt with the ignition side, whilst their resident Weber expert tweaked the carbs. In short, they found a whole load of horses which were on holiday from my engine bay and returned them to the stall. Additionally, the car drives far better, transition from idle circuit to main circuit is much improved, if not perfect, and the carburation is greatly improved overall. I can now cruise at 85 mph on a very light throttle and that first inch of throttle travel is far more responsive. This is exactly what I wanted - drive-ability. When you plant the throttle is goes like it should and that song from the webers is a joy worth paying for!

    In the end the car was fitted with 60 idles and 140 mains with 200 air correctors. It'll be interesting to see how (if) the economy changes with the increased jets and 3D ignition, the car certainly feels crisper to drive, so I'd hope to see an improvement. I suspect that there are further gains to be had from playing around with the progression circuit, but that is going to have to wait until the winter at this point.

    In all, it's been an interesting little project and one that I would definitely repeat - and recommend to others. At a total cost of less than £500 ($840), it's the cheapest sensible solution out there, looks to be a quality piece of kit and was easy to fit. I have kept copies of the various brackets I made which I'm happy to share if others want to follow this route, and I understand that other forums have managed to obtain group buy discounts. NODIZ Pro Ignition Only ECU

    For those with injected cars, ME are shortly releasing a very clever ignition and injection ECU which will incorporate wideband lambda reading. I've already chatted to Matt about having another of my cars fitted with this...

    I have no connection with the company other than as a satisfied customer.
     
  18. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    James, sounds like things worked out well. Did they give you a print-out of the dyno run? If so, can you post it so we can see the actual numbers?

    Enjoy the car and definitely get her out there and driver her like you stole her.
     
  19. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 16, 2011
    7,042
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    Robert
    Albin a fchatter here has a solution for the tach issue that both John and I are using. Check out his website and your tach can be used with his mod:

    http://www.dinoplex.org/tachoconversion/




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. Corsa308

    Corsa308 Formula Junior

    Apr 22, 2007
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    Steve D
    It'd be great to see your dyno figures.
     
  21. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    Dyno run - yes I did get a print out, unfortunately I'm struggling with my scanner though, I'll see I'll can get it fixed and post up later.

    Regarding the tacho - Matt worked out the problem and managed to fix it with a few diodes - I'm sure he'd provide these to anyone wanting to buy a kit.
     
  22. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    #22 itiejim, Apr 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ahh - sorted it. I'm better with cars than computers.

    It doesn't show the initial run unfortunately, but it was down at 151 BHP (albeit I never really believe the actual numbers these things show).
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  23. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
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    James Ashton
    Don't know why it's split the graph like that - it's fine on my PC???
     
  24. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    Thanks for posting the chart. It's a bit hard to read, especially because it is sideways and split.

    I assume the 208.2 is HP at the rear wheels, yes? RWHP is usually, on average, about 80% of HP at the flywheel, if I recall correctly. So HP at the crank would be around 249 - 250. Did they do any HP measurement before making the adjustments, for comparison purposes? If so, what was pre-adjustment HP?
     
  25. itiejim

    itiejim Karting

    Dec 9, 2008
    81
    UK
    Full Name:
    James Ashton
    Pre-adjustment was 151, albeit, that was with a "safe" map that had been supplied for me to drive the car down to be mapped, so not an entirely fair comparison. I know from speaking to Matt that it runs a maximum of 39 degrees advance and that it is brought in earlier than the standard Ferrari set up (which I supplied him from the handbook). TBH I don't know whether the bhp is flywheel or road wheels, though from what I've seen on other rolling roads, the actual figure is of less relevance than the before and after figures.

    Happy to share the map if anyone else needs it (just as soon as I can work out how to connect my laptop to the ECU)...
     

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