Ken talked to me one time about with one car he bought is sight unseen but with his transaction with the "gentleman" in Atlanta (he was mentioned in 335's post) there was no way he would complete that deal without being there in person and to take posession of everything that was supposed to be in the deal. Jeff
Yes, Bertocchi, Ken swapped his P-car AND his (wrecked) LM for the comp Daytona, which he also drove everywhere on the street. To say that Fong got the better of that deal is an understatement, for sure. Even Ken admitted, later, that it was one of the dumbest trades of all time. If memory serves, Sparling ended up rebuilding the LM, which Ken had allowed to fall off the road in an FOC "Ride-n-Drive".
Some one had a P car on long island and I saw it once or twice on the Long Island Expressway being driven in heavy traffic by a small oriental man ( Not Tony wang) this was in the early 1980's Jeffrey Vogel somewhere we have a picture of it in traffic
Marcel, why would there be a recent lawsuit against Chinetti, by the factory, if the factory sold Chinetti the cars? The lawsuit in 2003 which ended in Chinetti's favor. Just curious J
"Some one had a P car on long island and I saw it once or twice on the Long Island Expressway being driven in heavy traffic by a small oriental man ( Not Tony wang) this was in the early 1980's Jeffrey Vogel" Jeff - that may have been Mr. Okata (sp?) but I thought he had a 250 LM. I rememebr seeing him at Lime Rock in the 70s with an LM and I was told that he drove his car regularly in NYC. Maybe he had a "P" also? Any truth to this? Bob Z.
Nearly ALL sightings of ANY 250P on streets of US are of 0810, especially in amnmd around Atlanta. 0812, and 0814 were ex-SEFAC caes held as Factory cars until late 1964ish, then sold to Chinetti/NART as Concessonaire Cars to be raced as such...upon their fading into onsolescence, they REMAINED-uninterupted-property of the "Chinetti Family/estate" until being sold to...what would logically(and legally-IMHO-to the first titled, (private owner/registerd owner???) Those two have largely been sequestered away for DECADES, until 0812s recent outing in Monterey by current/new owner. 0814??? "Retired" states that: the original frame is intact and he is in the know as to it's whereabouts...a tidbit many would be eager to know as well...particularly me... 0816 was offered to me in 1978/9 for a/the princely sum well in excess of 300K, at a time when THE BEST 250GTO was also shopped to me at the RIDICULOUS asking price-in the greater southeastern US-for 165K!!! 0816 was in primer, and TOTALLY disassembled when being shopped around... as an additional; anecdote: The LM which is referenced above, is the one Stan traded to Okata(a bond trader or something?) which was purchased solely in order to trade for Okata' s oddball "coachbuilt Coupe", which was then sold to Pierre.... thats right, under the "coupe body" was.... 0808TRi... ...the LM(ex-Rindt car)was the car in Boston which I declined to trade for a 6/c, alloy, HOT motor race 275 and 5k in cash(I couldn't drive the LM to school in Cambridge was my rationale!), so the Daytona coupe for the LM, and 0810, is not the only incredibly BAD trade made-or NOT made, back in those days...
I read through this thread looking for the answer to my question but didn't see it. Apologies if this has already been covered, but which 250Ps were at Sebring in 1963, and where are they now? Thanks. Jack.
250P #0810 - Surtees/ Scarfiotti winner - Anthony Wang since '88 Monterey Sportscar auction c$3 mil. which was a lot of $$ http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/0810.250p.htm #0812 - Mairesse/ Vaccarella/ Bandini 2nd place - the car shown in this thread as belonging to Steve Hill http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/RM0018024.html #0814 http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Sebring-1963-03-23.html - great pic's
Thank you. I saw the cars race at Sebring in 1963....AND I saw 0810 sold in Monterey in 1988. There's some kind of symmetry there, but I'm not sure what! Jack.
OK read the previous forum postings and I see the note from Massini reversing his earlier i.d. on this former 250P later 275P SN so that now the car that burned at LeMans is 0812, the same car that Coco Chinetti later had rebodied by Michelotti in a gullwing body; and the same car that later went to Italy decades later to be rebodied as a 250P or maybe 275P. And the same car that was confiscated by Ferrari, snared in a lawsuit, settled 3 years later in Coco's favor. My question is simple: back when it was in its gullwinged body at the New York auto show (body pictured on Car & Driver cover) Ithey handed out a brochure (pictured on FChat). But the brochure pages shown don't have a price or allude to that particular car being for sale. Does anyone remember Coco or co-designer Bob Peak saying at the show what the car could be bought for AS IS with that body? Maybe it never was for sale--merely there as a show car made more to promote Chinetti-Peak Design doing future one off cars on request.
so even though I'd like to research the Chinetti-Peak car, its history is so murky, I am I researching Ken Starbird's old car, especially since I saw it in person when Ken owned it (I seem to remember riding it it too but maybe that's wishful memory making). Anyhow when I looked at the site with all the SN it mentions a team back East owning it 64 - William McKelvy, Pittsburgh, PA, USA - Scuderia Bear and then there's a several year gap--in fact ten years--before it records when Ken bought it. I was wondering if he bought it from that team and what year that was and if it was ever reported what the price was back then? Was that still in the Sixties when he bought it? I know the FCA meet I attended, where they stopped for lunch and I saw the car , was between '70 and '72. Also I was in shock you could drive such a car on the street. Didn't cops write him up for not having a safety glass windshield (he had only wraparound windscreen)? And what about mufflers? I came to Calif. for Michigan where they'd write you a noise ticket on a '69 Corvette with factory side pipes, let alone no mufflers. The comments here in this string about gas tanks are extremely off-putting. I guess the only way to drive one safely is have a modern fuel cell installed.
Nothing murky at all. 0812 had a fire at LeMans in 1963 while leading the race. Ferrari fixes it and it comes back and wins the 12 Hours of Sebring in 1964 (Obviously AFTER the burn in 1963). Ferrari sells it to Chinetti after LeMans in 1964. It goes on to win the very first race at Mount Tremblant, blah, blah, blah. Retires from racing after finishing 2nd in class at 1965 at the 12 Hours of Sebring. The cars are not hard to drive. As some people in California and Palm Beach, Florida have observed the 250/275P drives around on the road just fine. Even through a Burger King drive-thru in West Palm Beach when I got thirsty driving it back from Palm Beach International Raceway to Palm Beach. They do get hot in the cockpit...... Steve
A question about #0810. In the thread about Anthony Wang, our own expert Marcel Massini said "Anthony Wang sold all of his Ferraris". Does anyone know if he sold #0810 and if so where it went?
810 still with Wang. Has been restored with its original 3lit. 250P engine. Wang still has many Ferraris in collection
Yeah, after writing that post I realised that it may have been totally wrong. But was too late to change and it was an interesting question, still. Thanks Retired............ And I do apologize for the wild goose chase.
Your dedication to the cause is truly impressive.Contributions like this are what make F Chat what it is and why so many of us are there every day.Pierre Bardinon is no longer with us and my understanding is that his family have plans to sell off most, if not all, of his collection. Apparently no one in the family has inherited his passion for the cars. What do you see as the future for 0816? tongascrew
If any of his cars come to public auction it will set the market alight. Unfortunately the collection will likely be sold very quietly through a broker such as Duncan Hamilton or Lukas Huni. This has happened with #0728TR and the 330P (0822?) which have very quietly been sold to other end users over the last few years. Unlike the other P's, #0816 won Le Mans AND has never been totalled from the best of my knowledge, so would be worth anywhere from 25 to 50 million USD depending on various factors. But baring in mind the last public sale was #0810 when it went to Tony Wang all the way back in '88 and the aforementioned point that the Bardinon collection (or any 250P) is extremely unlikely to be publicly sold we may never know what they actually sell for.........
Some say a collection like this should stay intact. There is a certain appeal to this however where is the correct source to come up with the necessary funds to carry this off. Also these collections tend to get locked up where few ever get the chance to enjoy them. In the long run the family may do better selling off cars individually or in small groups and accepting other forms of payment other than cash.I am sure there will be no real difficulty in finding new owners who have a particular interest in a specific car and hopefully will make it available at shows and other events where we can enjoy them live. tongascrew
