Chris Harris drives F12 | FerrariChat

Chris Harris drives F12

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by AlexO91, Sep 17, 2013.

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  1. AlexO91

    AlexO91 F1 Rookie

    Sep 26, 2008
    2,909
    NW England
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    Alex
    I was a 599 GTB owner when Ferrari announced the new F12 last year. Being so left me even more astonished when the official numbers were released. I had been using my car that day, all 620hp of it, and on damp roads I had just left the traction control on and wondered what on earth the point of having so much power in such conditions really was. In fact I left the TC on in the 599 most of the time because it felt unwise not to.

    740hp means it'll do this all day long...And with those thoughts pinging around my head Ferrari announces a car that has another 120hp, and weighs 225kg less. It just didn't compute. I couldn't actually see the point and imagined F12s being buried in hedges the moment unsuspecting owners contemplated touching the throttle pedal.
    Bargaining chip

    That was last March, the car has been on sale a while and many of you will know that I'm not on the Ferrari Christmas card list, but the people at Ferrari UK asked if I wanted to shoot a video on the F12 (the 458 Spider effort has garnered a few views) and I immediately said yes. I am a car addict, not a politician, and I want to know what a 740hp, rear-drive Ferrari feels like. The idea was to shoot a pretty special video of the car that doesn't enter the murky waters of comparison tests, performance data, power outputs and lap times (neither party is happy going down that route just yet!) which we have done, but the editor wanted some words on it in advance, so here goes.

    We needed the car to shoot on the Thursday and Friday, so naturally I insisted on collecting it as early as possible on Monday for 'planning reasons'.

    For years people have been urging car manufacturers to seek extra performance through reduced size and mass rather than throwing extra power at the problem. Ferrari has only embraced half of this philosophy. The F12 is not only lighter than the 599, it's a good deal smaller too. In Rosso Berlinetta (£15,360), to my eyes it looks absolutely stunning - miles better in real life and juxtaposed against normal cars. The rear is a little fussy and time will have to judge the prominence of the F1 rain light, but for me it's another great looking Ferrari.

    The driving position is low, the wheel adjusts electrically straight back into your chest and the seat is meanly padded. There's some clever weight saving going on here; all carpets and trim materials are ultra-lightweight with technical feeling surfaces. The seats are especially clever because despite appearing at first to offer Amish levels of comfort, they're actually perfect over long distances.

    The accelerator springing takes some getting used to. It's very hard, the travel is long and it needs a decent push, but the dual-clutch 'box engages first so much more smoothly than the old hydraulic manual you don't need a three day acclimatisation course to avoid looking a prick in traffic. I just left it in full auto mode and let the computer take the strain.

    There is complete emotional and sensual detachment from the controls on the F12. Ferrari has being going this way for some time, but driving the car on the road can feel a touch like being in a simulator. The steering is very fast but doesn't offer any tangible sensation of connecting the driver to the road, the brake pedal is pretty numb at road speeds because the carbon ceramic discs are operating so far below their preferred temperatures and, perhaps most tellingly, the noises it makes are a little contrived.

    Especially the difference between quiet F12 and shouty F12. The former really is a whisper-jet, barely audible or discernable as a 6.3-litre V12, the other is one of the most outrageous noises ever emitted by a motor car. The trouble is, the exact moment those exhaust baffles open and proclaim war on pedestrians' ears never quite seems to be controlled by the drivers' right foot. It's just too much for me. I found myself cringing every time it let rip because people turn around and stare.

    Driving the F12 on the road in the UK is nothing more than a lesson in restraint. In most very, very fast cars the judicious, experienced driver can find moments to explore those capabilities without exposing themselves to too much trouble. The F12 exists outside those boundaries and in a zone I have only really experienced before driving loopy 800hp GT-Rs. It is so fast, the numbers accrue so vividly that it really is impossible to experience the full glory on the public road. That's a sad admission, but it's true.

    It also presents the F12 with a tricky secondary role. Can it be any good at three tenths of its ultimate ability? Expecting a 1,525kg (dry), 211mph Ferrari sports GT car to be the last word in communication is naïve, but the PlayStation controls are slightly misleading. You need to spend several days in the F12 before you drop into the speed of its controls and the way it goes about its business, and only then do you reach the conclusion that it is miles more pleasant than the 599 at a relative plodding pace. The smaller dimensions make it much easier to place on UK roads, the transmission is very good too. The moment was moving with any fluidity, I just left it in manual mode and the Manettino in Race.

    The most important button for inhabitants of this small island is the one sporting the damper logo on the steering wheel. Push it and the message 'Bumpy Road' appears on the dash, indicating a softer damper setting. Now you have a car supple enough to enjoy on any of our tragic road surfaces - it's a real bonus and seriously broadens the car's appeal and usability. On long motorway trips, the F12 is less fatiguing than a 991.
    The quick steering can catch you out though. The seat position is so far back in the chassis, and the rack so fast that it's very easy to add more steering to the car than intended. Again, you learn to adjust your inputs with familiarisation.

    Otherwise the public highway offers very little opportunity to test any part of the F12's dynamic behaviour. The cabin is first-rate, ergonomically insane, but rather endearing because of that. I'm now a big fan of the wheel-mounted indicator switches, but not the dipped/main beam equivalent. Apologies to everyone I blinded. Furthermore, we need to celebrate the fact that you can now climb into a Ferrari, have your telephone instantly connect to its brain, alongside your music files, and then easily input a destination into the navigation, and be on your way. In my 599, this never quite happened.

    To the circuit then. With the Manettino set to 'CT off', the car has reduced electronic chassis intervention and is comfortably the best front-engined car of its type I've driven. The front axle turns with no delay, grip builds mid corner in a way I just didn't expect from a basic Pirelli P-Zero and traction doesn't square with specification sheet that reads 'front-engined, rear wheel drive'. Imagine an E46 M3 CSL with greater accuracy, similar breakaway characteristics and over 700hp? This is that car. It is absurdly talented and enjoyable.

    The brakes are simply immense, but four hot laps are your limit, even with the active brake cooling flaps open.

    And the engine? You just never fully come to terms with it. The power just builds and builds, the numbers on the dashboard become alarming and the intake noise hurts your ears. I have never driven anything as fast in such a manner as this. All systems off, it will oversteer in fourth gear at over 100mph, and with perfect balance. I just can't wait for you all to see the video.

    So that's a quick look at the F12. I wouldn't even look at an Aventador now. I was discussing this with a colleague recently. For me the dynamic gap between the big-banger V12 Ferrari and Lambo has never been bigger. And it's Ferrari that makes by far the better drivers' car.

    RE: Ferrari F12: Review - PistonHeads
     
  2. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
    6,114
    Three Places
    Thanks for posting. I think that Chris captures the essence of what makes a car enjoyable at far less than its full capabilities. This is critical nowadays since the performance envelope has been pushed so far beyond road practicality.

    A few remarks:

    Chris also complained about a certain synthetic sound in the 458, as I recall. This and his guilt about open valves can be addressed with a proper aftermarket exhust and valve control device.

    Lack of steering feedback is the curse of electric steering systems, which I assume the F12 has? (Correct me if I am wrong).

    I was surprised by his finding of brake fade in 4 hot laps. Doesn't seem reasonable.
     
  3. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    IMO the brake fading can be cured by fitting more suitable brake pads (pagid 19s for instance) or different brake fluid.

    Great review as always. Liked the F12 from the beginning but he might have turned me completely with this review. We are further along with (tire) tech now than 10 years ago so more power might be acceptable...

    :)
     
  4. AlexO91

    AlexO91 F1 Rookie

    Sep 26, 2008
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    I'm looking forward to his video review. It seems Ferrari are slowly letting Chris drive their cars again. which is good for now.
     
  5. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,730
    Second time that someone complains about too much power for the road.

    Maybe it´s true!
     
  6. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i think he is on to something.
    driving a car like this at 3/10ths 90pct of the time is kind of ridiculous.

    and then for it not to be able to handle more than 4 laps on the track at a time?? whats the point??

    i think we have somehow reached the end of the logical sequence with this car.
     
  7. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    I do not believe F12 has electric steering.

    The curse of all these new ultra high performance super cars is you really can't use 100% of their performance for more than a few seconds in a row at any time. Their abilities are simply that high.
     
  8. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
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    Yes, I would assume it is hydraulic.

    And given that you are always limnited to a few seconds of full performance, the cars have to be fun at 3/10-5/10s. So parameters like quickness, agility, sound, responsiveness, etc matter a lot. But if that were all there was, you could get the same satisfaction from a Mazda Miata (am exaggerating). So the 7/10-9/10s driving experience matters a lot too.
     
  9. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    True! The truth is: everything matters. And that's why Ferrari is Ferrari.
     
  10. jvecchi

    jvecchi Formula Junior

    May 5, 2005
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    John M. Vecchi
    If anyone here has any experience with modern sport bikes, it's the same deal. On the road you rarely use full throttle for more than a few seconds, because you just accelerate so hard and use up road so quickly. All that said, those few seconds every so often are just what the doctor ordered most days.
     
  11. Sld7

    Sld7 Formula Junior
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    Nov 11, 2010
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    The F12 steering is incredible. The most precise of any Ferrari to date and in a league of its own.

    I have never experienced any sort of brake fade.

    I seriously doubt Ferrari would build their top of the line automobile only capable of four laps. Sorry.
     
  12. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
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    I also thought the brake fade did not sound right, even if Harris is the world's fastest driver. While it is true that better pads and specialized brake fluid would enable longer distances, I am scratching my head over this statement, "The brakes are simply immense, but four hot laps are your limit, even with the active brake cooling flaps open," which seems almost self-contradictory.

    As for the steering, it is indeed precise. But Harris is referring to "feedback," a more intangible parameter.
     
  13. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    While this is a new model, the predecessor was known for brake fade. After a few spirited laps the 599 brakes are definitely fading. They never completely go away but they take a lot more pressure to operate and I've heard stories of owners who cooked their brakes.

    You have to remember the manufacturers set the brakes up for working in real world conditions and that often comes at the expense of being totally suitable for the race track.

    I see nothing contradictory in Harris' statement. I interpret his statement that after 4 laps the brakes are showing a lot of fade; which means you better be careful if you keep going. He's saying its not set up to be a track car. If anything you could say his statement really just states the obvious. I bet you would never get anywhere near even a hint of brake fade on the street.
     
  14. Sld7

    Sld7 Formula Junior
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    So you can take a Lamborghini Gallardo to the track and do 5 laps fine but not a Ferrari F12?
     
  15. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

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    You are probably right. It is a typically exuberant "Harris-ism."
     
  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Their previous hypercar suffered from overheating shocks because they placed the reservoirs over the exhaust system, without any real heat insulation.

    Ferrari, contrary to Fchat believe, doesn't always do everything perfectly.
     
  17. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran

    Dec 4, 2004
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    Not 5 laps of a track down here, in fact Gallardo's are lucky if they can managed 2 laps before the brakes are smoking. Again this is track specific and driver specific.

    I thought the review was by and large quite balanced.
     
  18. Sld7

    Sld7 Formula Junior
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    So when Ferrari did their extensive testing of the F12, they built it so it could only go 4 laps around Fiorano without losing its brakes.....
     
  19. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    8,299
    Bournemouth, UK
    The F12, as all Ferraris has a hydraulically asisted steering rack.
    As for the brake fade, it is very slight and only happens beacause of the road going brake fluids that "boil". You can use competition fluids but they require often changing.
     
  20. Sld7

    Sld7 Formula Junior
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    Very slight seems more realistic......especially considering all the testing they do.
     
  21. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Right. And it seems to me Fiorano is a fairly small, technical track. It really depends on the speeds one is attaining etc. There are so many things a manufacturer would do if it knew the vehicle would never see street driving. But these are road cars, so there are trade offs. We trust Ferrari will make the right trade offs for the vast majority of us.

    I would not be bothered even slightly that the brakes fade after some track use. The important thing is how they work on the street, and for that use, these brakes will hold up tremendously well.
     
  22. Sld7

    Sld7 Formula Junior
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    I agree. The brakes are fantastic for the F12.

    I guess he is trying to compare the best "swiss army knife" while at a gun fight.
     
  23. FerrariFL

    FerrariFL Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2012
    524
    does anyone know when the vidoe review will be out??
     
  24. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
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    No doubt about that.

    Hear good things about Botswana these days.
     
  25. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    so after further thought we have concluded that
    - the brakes are entirely adequate for the street, but only average for the track.
    - the engine is complete overkill for the street, but pretty cool on track.


    sounds like you might want to change the fluid and pads to comp versions before doing anything else....
     

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