In my experience everyone has a different description of the s Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
Whoops. Didnt finish. I will agree with the CPS statement. If it was not reset when the clutch was replaced then it is telling the car that the clutch is still worn out. Then it goes into "protect itself" mode. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
Is the CPS part number 178060? I'm trying to find reference of whether it was changed on the last clutch job... The car has 26K miles, clutch changed 6 years ago at 19K miles. [edit] The CPS was *not* changed on the last job -- the clutch reading was over 90% at the PPI ~2 months ago... F1 pump never changed at least I don't have a record of it.
It doesnt always get replaced. It needs to be zeroed out during replacement. Let me rephrase that. It MUST be zeroed out. If it was reading 90% worn at replacement and not reset, it still reads 90% or worse now. So now that maybe 5% or more is worn on the new one, I dont believe you can tell the CPS to start at 5%. So it will be off until the next replacement. Iirc Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
At 90% the car will drop out of gear usually at stop lights. Sticking in gear not so much, but not unheard of. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
No problem, you're banned until your next post. The PPI revealed the 90/10 figure? Do the records indicate who performed the last clutch replacement? Dealer or indi? Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4
Everything was done at the dealer. I have the log of all records from the dealer going back to 2004. Not much done on the F1 other than this clutch, to bearing, and engine rear main seal ( I guess prev owner had a RMS issue and replaced the clutch at that time).
Guys as a quick update on the car -- it's now back and we've changed the relay as a preventive measure. One thing that was found was battery voltage low, and looking at the past history it seems that the car exhibited this problem in the recent past. Question -- I assume that a low battery could affect the F1 system but could it affect it in such a way that it would get stuck in gear? Keep in mind we found selection gear and opposite engagement TCU codes as well (they were cleared and we'll check again shortly). I'd rather not change the sensors if I don't have to (and especially since I assume the sensors are there to monitor other things in the F1 system)?
Lack of battery voltage can cause lack of pressure due to a slow pump. Less than 35bar then it won't shift. If it tries to shift but doesn't reach the full movement on the selected gear the gearbox tcu will assume there's a problem with the selection sensors as is it doesn't see the figure it expects to.
Low voltage can make strange things happen. On my 97 Jaguar XK8 if I left it sitting for a week the window auto up when the door was closed would not work. After about six opening and closing the window would be halfway down. Charged battery fixed that. I just checked my service history for the clutch replacement and the sensor kit and sensor mount were replaced ($400 in parts). Not sure why the mount was changed. Alan
The only question that I have is the following -- once the car starts, doesn't everything run off the alternator? At least my understanding of general automotive behavior is that when the engine is running the power in the system is from the alternator and the battery is charging off the alternator. In my case the behavior of the car is normal until it goes about 1 hr after which the car gets stuck in gear. If it was a battery low voltage issue would it not happen sooner?
Good point. In my case the doors were closed with the engine stopped so never tried it with the engine running. Alan
What about a heat-related issue that causes the pump to lose pressure? Could heat affect the sensors (especially the opposite engagement and the selection gear sensors which apparently are throwing codes)? I would assume if it was heat affecting these sensors it would show up earlier and not after 1 hr since the car comes up to operating temperature quite soon?
Guys so just an update since I'm still debugging this issue... When the car was in for service there were some notes about the battery voltage low. I checked this today after the car was parked for a week -- the battery voltage is 12.25V before starting the car -- I assume this is not too bad? If it had a cell bad it would be lower if I recall correctly. Then when running the car the voltage reads between 13.75V @ idle and about 14.25V @ speed so I assume the alternator is working well. The reason for mentioning this is whether the battery itself could cause this intermittent fault. Anyway that's one thing... Second, this morning -- after the car sat for a week, it took about 10-12 s for the pump to prime itself when opening the door for the first time. Seemed to me like this was very long... Separately, after starting the car, the 'N' was flashing in the gear selector box for about 10-15 s, and getting it into gear '1' it was flashing as well. The car did move forward with the flashing on. After about 1 minute the flashing disappeared and never came back during a 20 minute drive. Could this be indicative of a low pressure in the F1 system? The shop I had it at checked it out and said it tested fine but I'm looking for others' experiences with this... Thank you.
Dan- Just go ahead and change the F1 pump relay to eliminate that as a problem. Easy to do. Get an X266 instead of an X152, since that is the latest version and has the hardest set of contacts. Juri sells them on E-bay,, but here is his e-mail so you can get the correct one direct. He also sells replacement F1 motors that can be replaced without having to bleed the system by just replacing the motor and not the head. Juri Gelovani [[email protected]] I am running an X266 in my 575M (V23134-B57-X266).
I thought the Juri one is the X152: #155437 part number for F1 pump (see eBay), I'm sure that's Juri's... The relay was changed by the shop and I'm going to have the pump done as well.
Juri shows the X152 in E-Bay, but has the X266 available. The X152 relay is available from BMW (part number 61361393403) for less than $20 from Autohauz.
I am a little confused... The indy shop where the car was looked at and scanned replaced the relay with this one: part number 233100: 233100 RELAY 12V 50A F1 PUMP : Ricambi America Which is a 12V, 50A relay for the F1 pump on the 360... My car is a 2003 so I assume this is correct? On the parts list it looks like there are two relays: 233100 1 RELAY -Valid for F1 $ 36.91 155437 1 RELAY -Valid for F1 -Not as spare part -Replaced by 194909 $ 90.00 The Juri one is 155437 so can anybody tell the difference between the 155437 and 233100? Is the 155437 for earlier years (1999 - 2002)?
Dan- Late Summer/Fall 2003, Ferrari replaced the 30 amp F1 pump relay (155437) with a 50 amp relay (194909) in the 360, CS and 575M. This change required a new wiring harness to fit the four prong 50 amp relay vs the five prong 30 amp relay. 194909 was superceded by 233100. So your 03 360 was apparently fitted with a 50 amp relay from the factory, unless the tech changed out the connector in your wiring harness. This image from Daniel at Ricambi shows the difference between the 30 amp and 50 amp relays. In general, the 50 amp relays have not caused problems, and were already being used in the engine compartment of the 575M before the F1 pump relay change. Needless to say, Daniel has been asked this question hundreds of times, which is why he made this image. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks guys -- still going through the debug, car was scanned and showed some Selection and Engagement errors; recommendation is to replace the Selection potentiometer. From my research it looks like this $2.5K Ferrari sensor is just a Hall-type sensor in a common casing. If anything the wiring harness and the epoxy close to the sensor itself is what's 'proprietary' to the Ferrari car but otherwise there should be some cross-reference(d) part?
Eddie, these look different than the newest advertised Ricambi units? 181325 POTENTIONOMETER G/B F1 : Ricambi America (here's the pic) http://www.ricambiamerica.com/images/181325_1.jpg Thoughts? Are they the same part number, just newer builds? The number is 181325.
Two more questions since you have had experience with these: (1) can they be replaced from the top of the engine bay, by removing the airbox/etc.? (2) do they need to be zero-ed after replacement? I know they should be 0.5 - 4.6V actual value but I'm thinking if replacing them with an identical (but working) unit then there should be no need to SD2 the system?
