David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

When it comes to Ferrari sns nothing is impossible. Do your homework and you will see.tongascrew

 

603 or 603C etc denominates the "Tipo" of engines and gearboxes and the likes, they are NOT chassis serial numbers.

WRONG. "As correctly as possible" would entail - in the very least and ignoring all the other obvious to pretty much everyone else but you serious modifications - the production of a HAND HAMMERED body. Like the one fitted to 350 Can Am s/n 0860, for instance. Or the one fitted to P3/4 0846. Or the one fitted to original P4 0856. Or the one fitted to 412P 0854.... get the drift?

 

Congratulations Ney.Yours is the first to shed real light on David Piper. You have obviously done some homework and none of you comments surprise me.I am sure the meetings between Ferrari and D P were fascinating blendings of serious egos and both came away with the impression they had the advantage of the other. Both had their detractors which is of no surprise. It really adds so much to the whole story.A couple of questions. Do you know who built the 3 chassis. We know Piper did not build them himself and had them done in Italy by ???. Enzo may have been "pissed" but what did he think D P was going to do with all those parts if not build another one or two chassis. It's always been my understanding that when E F gave him 0900 he understood Piper was going to get more than one chassis. My other question is about the ownership of 0858 when it went to America. Who owned it,Harrah, S F or? Finally it has always been my impression that when he car left Italy and went to America. it traveled as 0858.Yes or no? Your post will remain in the 0858 P4 file. Thanks again. tongascrew

 

You can't 'restore' something that doesn't exist.

They are building a new P4 by cutting up a Can am, perhaps dipping into Piper's spare parts bin (whatever is left of those) and bolting on brand new componants under an incorrect bondo heavy body.

Some 'restoration'.

 

When it comes to Ferrari perhaps, but cutting up a 350 Canam in order to place a replica P4-body on it, has nothing to do with Ferrari. That is part of the problem.

 

Happy 95th birthday Madiba! Get well and stay healthy.

 

LMAO - ROF !!!

 

On phone so I will be brief.
Chassis - If I were doing it, I would go to Vaccari e Bosi. I expect Piper did too.
Ferrari expected Piper to build 1 car with spares, not 3. That is why it was chassis number 0900, 0900a, and 0900b. Of course one of those was something else.
I don't know the title holder. Harrah was the Chinetti of the west, so they would have worked out of there for west coast events.
Yes the chassis was still 0858 as a can am. Even if the tipo designation changed the serial # was the same.

 

Thanks very much. A couple of more questions How is the book being written by his wife coming along? At 91 I have to ask what is projected to happen to his estate when he passes on.Finally any good sources of reference on Daid Piper. I started reading about him when I was about 16 when I had a subscription to Autosport with some fiends.I am now 75 and have been participating in Ferrarichat since 1957 If you wish my E Mail is "tongascrew@ aol.com. tongascrew

 

Yes I get the drift.It would be helpful if we could get some info on who did the resto bodywork and how it was done on these cars.When no one is forthcoming one has to wonder why. Is it that big a secret? tongascrew

 

And how exactly do you know that the body is heavy with bondo.? The pictures don't give any indication of this. Your statement is typical of so many others that are opinions only with no factual basis of any kind.Let's see what you got. tongascrew

 

I do not know about David Piper's wife or book or estate.
My interest is in Ferrari racing automobiles, not people, although when you follow cars, you learn a lot about some people along the way.

I suspect you have been interested in Ferrari's since 1957 as FerrariChat is a good bit younger.

 

As far as I know David Piper is 82, not 91. D.O.B. 12th December, 1930.

 

You were less than forthcoming with any evidence that Enzo gave Piper permission to cut up his cars for $$$.

You are guilty of the very thing you find 'typical of so many others'.

 

I would like to draw attention to post 1683 and the comments by "Ney" who seems to have accurate info about David Piper and 0858.It appears that when 0858 P4 became a Can Am car the 0858 sn remained on the car when it was shipped to America and we can assume David MacKay is correct that 0858 was the sn on the car when it arrived in Australia.As the car never returned to S F in any way that the sn 0858 remained on the car and may still be there.Apparently the only paperwork that shows the 0603 C s/n is the what Classiche refers to the origin of which is unexplained. tongascrew

 

Photos by Marcel Massini.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I thought I posted this photo before, but perhaps not...
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Hi Marcel,

When were then photographs taken?

Regards

Jong

 

No, there are no papers that denominate the car's SERIAL NUMBER as 603 anything. The SERIAL NUMBER has always been 0858, on all documents. 603(C) is not a SERIAL NUMBER it is a "TIPO" designation and is used to describe engine and gear box types. 0858, stamped on the chassis and other parts of the car as Marcel Massini just pictured was this automobile's only SERIAL NUMBER designation.

Let me repeat this clearly: 603 and 603C are not, were not, and will never be serial numbers that identify a P4 chassis. Never. They appear on P4 engines and gear boxes, and as thus are stamped on parts that are on more than one car.

You would have to ask Jim about that which is why I quoted this message, but I am sure if you do your homework you can quickly find out who Classiche farms out the work to, when people send hand hammered bodies to be restored by them.

Pictures of the car's restoration and massive amounts of Bondo used compared to the car's (and other recreations') original or period correct hammered style bodies are a few posts back (look for a post by miurasv) and also in Talacrest's facebook page. I would go through the trouble of looking for pictures of the bodies of both of Jim's cars, as well as the pictures of the replica body being made by piper so you could compare and draw your own conclusions but since they have both appeared here, and since you seem to not have noticed, I'm afraid it would be a moot effort.

 

Tipo 603.

Marcel Massini
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

As far as 0858 is concerned, tipos 237(P4) and 247(Can Am) are the engines that were used.

 

Is that on the Chassis, Marcel? And if so is it considered to be a serial number? Because if so, then I will apologize and admit my ignorance/misunderstanding of what I've read here up to now.

But I guess I am already wrong in considering it an engine Tipo. It is, in fact referring to the gearbox, though, correct?

EDIT -
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142385611-post1127.html

From what I gather from what Jim is saying here, "Tipo 603", is a way of describing shared components within the entire P4 range (and related cars such as 350 Can Ams, whcih carry 603C components). What I meant with my phrase in bold (not clearly enough, I guess) is that "Tipo 603 (C)" are not single, independent identifiers of cars, therefore are not "Serial Numbers". 0858, 0846, 0854 etc, are....

 

Of course NOT on the chassis!!

Marcel Massini

 

Thought so. Thank you.

 

Worth quoting this one from way back. No mention of 603 as a serial number, in fact, quite the contrary.