+1. And on top of it I now know the difference between seize and cease (English is not my mother-tongue) Best, Jack.
I do apologize. I read this "hackjob" statement several times before my post. I am actually very pleased that I was wrong and stand corrected. tongascrew
Please. don't be sorry for any of your comments.They are all well said. E F had a way of not looking back over his successes. The famous "scrapyard" is evidence of this. His reaction to the 1961 revolt is also evidence of the same but done differently.Never look back, clean house. and come back even stronger. It made no difference to him whether it involved cars or people. The result was the same This may be his greatest achievement. Like so many great people before him he made decisions that were completely of his own doing. The deal with David Piper had this same formular. I am still hoping that we may hear more from the U K and David Piper himself. Jim has done extraudinary things with everything from 002 to 0858 and has openly shared his experience with all. I am hoping D P may follow his lead. In the mean time let us continue our discussions and look forward to the final product of 0858. tongascrew
Enzo is somewhere laughing and crying. Laughing at the attention being paid to obsolete racers and crying that he didn't make the money off them that they're now commanding.
permit a slight modification, David: the Commendatore never cried except at Dino's passing. He's laughing, then furious and fuming at the money he didn't make!
Mark Rothko the same, and the founders of Rolex and the men responsible for many great things we today hold dear.
Just read a big biography on Rothko. He was more aware of the posthumous valuation of his work than many believe, or want to believe. His kids are doing more than fine because of that awareness. But in a general sense I agree with all of you on that point. I also think it's one of the main reason Classiche exists.
Modification allowed. The point stands. Sometimes this thread reminds me of the Elaine May line "dedicated to a way of life that was dead before he was born".
Hi Mario, Thanks for the reply no 1044, very informative and appreciated. I have followed the 0854 thread over the last few years, and would agree that the transparency of the work enables us to fully understand the history of the cars, the ways in which they were developed as the racing periods went by, enabling us to form our own opinions. (Waiting for an update by the way!) The photographic documentation also provides future generations with factual evidence of what is being undertaken, so that hopefully, none of the argumentative ugliness, that this thread was/is turning into, is repeated - maybe? I must admit that I didn`t really follow the 0846 thread, due to very similar reasons, that detracted from the articles main attraction. Regards Jong
I know what you mean and am partially guilty of feeding the cyclical aspect of this discussion, which is almost always opinion based. It's fun, lets me exercise my english, but can get tiring too. But I'm afraid the discussion has no end, as VIZSLA mentioned in his reply to my long post. But I'm glad to be of service, although I still think many here are more qualified to talk about these cars than I am. I'm just learning.
I think he would have a great laugh/cry (still not sure which) that the types of people he didn't want dining with his Segram murals now think nothing of spending $50m+ to have a single piece in their homes.
.....and in another six months [substitute whatever number you please] we'll be at 1500 posts, we shall have decided precisely nothing and the thread will continue until six months after Talacrest finds a buyer at a price they will accept - the six months is to allow the thread to detox - and everyone will go home saying I told you so. I've begun to think like King Solomon: perhaps there is enough spare 'stuff' hanging around to allow Piper to cut the baby in two and 'recreate' both a P4 and a 350! Making everyone happy and angry simultaneously. Jim, please don't shoot. ;-)
The point of that parable is that the woman willing to accept that deal wasn't the mother and didn't deserve the baby. Need I say more?
A couple of serious observations: I've been a Ferrari-holic since the early 1950s when I was in law school; subscribed to The Autocar Magazine that came in the bottoms of the Queen Elizabeth and Queen Mary, four or five at a time, that is, roughly once a month. I'd strip them from their rolled-up brown paper wraps and lay them flat, reading one a week in order not to run out too quickly. Still have photos I took of Masten Gregory racing a 2 litre Mondial at Floyd Bennet Field Brooklyn in 1953 and of El Maestro, Juan Manuel Fangio, at the 1956 Sebring 12 Hours in the 860 Monza. I thought I knew a good bit about Ferraris almost from the beginning but at least as regards the Ferraris in this discussion, comparatively speaking, I didn't know nuthin'. or almost nuthin'. So I truly want to thank mostly Jim and all of you who have contributed to the store of knowledge about the P4s and 350s that you have shared here. Truly, it has been fascinating and enlightening, even if somewhat repetitious. Second: the July issue of Automobile Magazine has a quite remarkable and, for us, timely story about Miles Collier's Symposium on Collectorship and the Collectible Car that is incredibly pertinent to this entire discussion. Here's a quote: "many of the most beautiful and charismatic restored cars have been historically 'destroyed' becoming little more than modern 'replicas' utilizing authentic content. By virtue of extensive embellishments or 'improvements' that have overwhelmed their documentary value, those automobiles have been negated as historical narratives." The article examines the quandary that faces the owner of every automobile of historical value. Very much worth a read for everyone who, fascinated by the issue and this discussion, has stuck by this thread through all this time.
I love your comments about about Autocar. Reminds me of when I was in high school getting copies of Autosport. Just the same, rolled up in tan paper and a least a month late. This and going to Thompson are what started it all. tongascrew
"They wanted to sign me to control me.I'd be given duff cars, all the excuses in the world...."; "To an Italian driver, I was a threat you see.They wanted to own me." and "I just love beating the factory production cars in my own car.....and just LOVE giving the Italian drivers "the finger" when I pass them on the last lap! Ferrari is furious! I can hear his teeth grinding all the way from Modena." If nothing else just look at his record on the race track and the number of different cars he drove. Also this is the man to whome Enzo Ferrari gave all the remaining factory spares and used parts to create memorials to the P Cars The more you know David Piper you will come to realize he is in the enviable position to, more than anyone ,to make the right decision about 0858. Now remember what Ferrari did to Count Volpe who built the "breadvan". Knowing the potential of the breadvan he cancelled Volpe's order for 2 GTOs Hardly Enzo Ferrari"s attitude towards David Piper. More than anyone Piper should be given the opportunity to restore 0858. After all E F entrusted him with several of the others. tongascrew
"Memorials" surely you are kidding. Is that another way of saying replica's? To be honest as much as I respect the opinion of others, the above I find the above amusing. I again have to ask who would essentially destroy what was the ONLY genuine 350 Can Am left to create a P4 with an English made body. I'd like to think anyone with a knowledge of the uniqueness of the 350 Can Am would rather restore that car than try and convert it back to something it stopped being well over 40 years ago. There is passion and there is business I will let you decide what this is, I will reserve my opinion.