David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Well put.That is why I put the post in the U K section of F Chat. We have some chatter already. tongascrew

 

If 0858 was originally built as a Can AM car with an original CanAM s/n and had a reasonably successful racing history in major championship events then it should be restored as a CanAm.0858 was built as a P4 with a P4 s/n and a credible racing history in championship events.0858 as a Can Am car was a failure.Simple......tongascrew

 

TYPO 603 P4 0858 HAS NOT EXISTED FOR 47 YEARS AND FITTING 350 CAN AM 0858 WITH AN INCORRECTLY MADE REPLICA "P4" BODY WILL NOT MAGICALLY TURN 350 CAN AM 0858 BACK INTO A P4.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142355877-post894.html

I agree with those who have posted that the proper place for discussion of Piperised 0858 is

"Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies"

This is NOT a Restoration. It is a Recreation.

 

All he is trying to say is that Piper raced 0858 in 0854 and apparently lost. Worthy competition indeed.

 

Just cause you consider the Can Am effort a failure does not make it an un-important part of Ferrari history for success is built on what we learn from failure. Whether the car did well or not isn't half as important as it was built and therefore is Ferrari history. The important thing is that this car is the last Ferrari Can Am car and should be left as such.

The fact that the car last left Ferrari's hands as a Can Am to me makes this car a Can Am forever on. Putting a replica body on it, even if it was done by Classiche does not make it a P4. To me Ferrari of the 1960's and Ferrari of today are two totally different entities. If it was converted to P4 back in the day it would be one thing. But at this point even Ferrari doing the recreation would be just that. A recreation. The car ended its useful racing life as a Can Am and to me that is what defines what this car is.

 

Not every DaVinci is the Mona Lisa.
No one suggests "enhancing" the lesser pieces.

 

I guess the truth would be if you had a painting by Da Vinci that he then painted over (has happened before), would you restore the earlier picture, technically challenging but possible or leave as is ? And many people would have different theories on what you would/ should do. Just the same as here.

 

If DaVinci painted both?

The point here is that the car is being transformed for commercial reasons. The rest is justification.

 

Yes and 0858 competed against 0854..please!

 

Not really. For your example to hold water they would have to be able to pull off the Can Am body and magically have the original P4 underneath.

This is more of a case where they are able to scrape off half of the painting on top and then bring in another artist to recreate what they couldn't uncover. The new painting is not the old painting. At best it's half of the old painting whereas the one on top was an actual 100% Da Vinci.

 

Presumably you would preserve the one with the following best qualities 1] provenance2]market value 3} visual style 4] historical importance 5] general show and use 6] prestige of ownership. Any Ferrari P series car easily wins over any CanAm car ever built. tongascrew

 

Preserve or create?

 

George

Instead of continuing to bleat stuff that remains not true once again answer this:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142367304-post978.html

 

Replicate.

Turning an Original 350 Can Am into a replica "P4"

 

The issue here has nothing to do with the competition records of the two cars. Please just stick with 0858. tongascrew

 

Given the choice of another P4 or a unique Can Am history is better served by the latter.

 

George

You stick with 0858 and answer this.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142367304-post978.html

I get that you like replicas.

I get that you have a replica swb cal spyder with a Ford engine badged as a Ferrari.

Are you really unable to understand that many of us have no interest in a real 350 Can Am turned into a replica "P4" by Piper?

 

Here we go again S/n 0858 is Originally a P4. As far as I know S F never assigned a new s/n to the chassis. In fact there may be no sn# stamp or plate on the chassis today. But you and the rest of the world know that the chassis being restored at Talacrest is 0858. Sure its not entirely original. What 196? Ferrari chassis is? When you listen to D P he states there were two engines with the car when he got it in 1969 but the condition and s/n of those is now unknown. Also the car was at one point for sale for 10 million [$, Euros,BPS what ever] and no one took it.Why because it was a complete failure as a Can Am car and what real use if any kind would it be to any owner. DP still has the original S F drawings and many of the original spare parts. He may still have access to the 0858 parts in 0900. The issue of the English wheel is over emphasized. There are plenty of 1960s Ferraris with English wheel body work winning trophys. I don't expect to change your mind or that of some.OK but there is another side to this discussion. tongascew

 

George

Your other side is that you'd prefer a Recreated Replica "P4" over an original 350 Can Am.

You're in luck.

That's what's happening.

Personally I find your suggestion that JC/Piper should leave Piperised 0858 engineless as it's original 350 Can Am engine isn't correct for a P4 Replica a non starter.

 

What was the motivation to do the same thing to 0860? (Presumably not immediate financial gain) And, how has history viewed that conversion?

 

Guys,

I understand when Ferrari sold the Can Am, they also included spares consisting of an engine, gearbox, suspension, wheels, windshield etc. Could it be that these `spares` were in fact, items discarded from the P4, and thus infering that it would be acceptable to return to the original P4 format if desired?

Also, I understand that David Piper owned 0858 at some stage. Could he have held on to the spares for his own use, and not sold them on with the car when he parted with same?

As Ferrari gave David Piper the blue prints for the P4, could it be that Ferrari would accept his involvement as being `as good as anybodys` regarding the manufacturing of chassis components to enable a return to the P4 design?

Regarding the bodywork, although manufactured using the English Wheel, by using 0860 as a template for accuracy, could the bodywork then be `distressed` to introduce the inaccuracies that were a feature of the original bodywork?

Not taking any sides here, just asking the questions.

Regards

Jong

 

Yep. If only you try hard enough, add some wishful thinking and throw in some spare parts it'll surely turn into a P4.

 

And those spares are what #0900 was created from.
Pete

 

Hi Pete,

So they were the original P4 components, removed to create the Can Am?

Regards

Jong

 

I assume PB wanted his 350 Can Am to look like a P4. Not sure why Piper didn't sell him 0860's original spyder body.

AFAIK 0860 has a replica P4 body made in Modena correctly by Allegretti.

0860 is a 350 Can Am with a replica P4 body as 0858 will be.