Testarossa sells @ $264k | FerrariChat

Testarossa sells @ $264k

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by andre#4, Sep 26, 2012.

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  1. andre#4

    andre#4 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2011
    36
    No more of my stupid questions here, just some info for everyone which has astounded me... You probably have seen this, but I may as well spread it around liberally, as this news can only help all of us...

    http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cfm?SaleCode=MO12&CarID=r225&Currency=USD



    Also,,, a different car sold last month for $104k, with 5k miles. It was an 86. I thought that was all the money at the time, since it won the following awards:


    2011 Concorso Italiano held in Monterey, CA
    - WINNER, "Best Ferrari"
    - WINNER, "Platinum"
    - WINNER, "Preservation Award"
    - RUNNER-UP, "Best in Show"

    I thought, well, $104, that is huge money for a TR, and probably the absolute top for a TR, the best in the world. But alas, that lousy $104k was nothing. It turns out people are already paying $264k for an 89 with out any show trophys. Let's see if that can win best Ferrari next year. I didn't even think a TR would get "best Ferrari" at one of those high brow events with all kinds of $10,000,000+ Ferraris owned by billionaires. Maybe the TR will eventually get some respect? Maybe it already has??? Even the pre auction estimate was $130-$160!!! And it blew right passed it. I am so glad to see that.

    It seems to me, that if very wealthy people are already paying $264K for a 23 year old mass produced Testarossa, with no celebrity owner, or other unique feature, the Testarossa may have it's day in the sun yet. Maybe not this year or next, but surely it will happen. Otherwise, you don't have people paying this much. I'll bet that $264k car sells for more next time, too, as long as nobody finds one better than that.
     
  2. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

    Jun 15, 2007
    229
    UK
    Full Name:
    Clive
    Wow !!!! That is incredible- thank you for posting :)
     
  3. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
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    James K. Woods
    How many miles did the '89 have on it?
     
  4. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2007
    5,459
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    Joe
    The TR gets tons of respect, in every area of the Ferrari community, and among the collector car community at large...at least that has been my experience.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=382201
     
  5. speedy

    speedy Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2005
    625
    Plano, TX
    Full Name:
    James Gardner
    129 Miles
     
  6. UpNorth

    UpNorth Formula 3
    Owner

    Sep 30, 2006
    1,767
    Quebec, Canada
    Full Name:
    Francois
    Talk about a wimpy owner! :D
    Anyway, good for him...And us, owners of driver...Maybe...Later
     
  7. andre#4

    andre#4 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2011
    36
    Wow, Joe, that is wonderful for you, and also for all of us who love the car. (in his link, it shows that Joe's early Testarossa was formally recognized with an important award at a very high profile event.) That is just more evidence of the respect the car is getting now. It seems like Joe might have been a little surprised that happened, though. That makes me think that this huge respect for the TR is rather new. Otherwise he would have expected the award to go to a TR automatically. I think usually the big awards are given to older cars. Or at least has been in the past. Besides, respect can usually be measured in dollars, and there can be no argument, the TR values have been low for a long time...Generally $50-$70k. Now, at $264, at least one TR approaches the value of a 6 cyl Dino.

    Please understand my perspective. I am just getting involved in Ferrari, so my ideas are just from what I have read in published books and magazines, and from what people have said to me over the last 20 years or so. I am no expert. But, I think that people like me are going to be the ones to come into the market for TR's eventually. We all love the TR, and for us, it is the only Ferrari we will consider buying, regardless of price. It is just that simple. TR, or nothing. We are not looking for the cheapest 12 cyl mid engine, or anything like that. We want the best, and that is the TR. We don't consider 328's, Mondials, 458's or any other model. It is like Coke and Pepsi. One is perfect, the other no good at all.

    Most books that I have read seem to describe the car in somewhat lackluster terms. Rather than as an important classic, it is described as "yesterdays supercar"...not as fast or as new looking as todays cars. And while reluctantly acknowledging the performance was excellent, or the best in its day, they can't seem to end the article without mentioning "dated styling", insane upkeep costs, and the fact that it was a prop in miami vice. Or they say that it was so over the top, that that works against it now that it is old, because everyone remembers it, and they know it is not new. (and this is bad how?) They say that the TR is in a category of cars which can not possibly appreciate in value. On the contrary, you are sure to lose big money if you buy one. It will be money well spent, but you are sure to lose, and you won't get it back.

    That is the part that really kills me. I just can't see that being the case anymore. I know it has been in the past, but such is the case with any depreciating car. But, they ALL appreciate eventually. I have watched countless inferior cars skyrocket in value, by orders of magnitude. The idea that it can't happen with the Testarossa is not only patently preposterous, it has now apparently been proven wrong! It was just insane to consider such a thing. Imagine, saying fords and chevys will appreciate, but it can't happen with a top of the line 12 cyl Ferrari?

    Now, we finally have multi-millionaires fighting over the best examples paying over 1/4 mil, and big awards at important events. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that these 2 aspects are relatively new, correct???

    This $264,000 is a price that means that important people are putting value on the model itself. They have paid an extra $180,000 on top of the going rate for a good example. They paid triple price. They wouldn't have done that unless the model itself was something very special, and these guy's don't do this to lose money. I am pretty sure they will resell for a profit.
     
  8. andre#4

    andre#4 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2011
    36
    There are a couple generations of people, who, when you say Ferrari, they think, or at least picture in their mind, the Testarossa. That is important. Now adays, with so many models, Ferrari has no single icon. What are you supposed to think? 360, 430, 458, 575, 599, 612, Cali, the little suv, one of the super cars? There are just too many. They are even starting with the 4wd suv. What's next? Trucks and minivans? Lawn tractors?They've truly gone mainstream, and the TR is a Vintage Ferrari to me. From a bygone era, when a Ferrari had to be a CAR. (no suv's) It Had to have a stick. With a metal gate. A clutch pedal. Sketchy rear vision. Manual steering. Connolly leather. A lot of these features, we will never see again. Connolly is defunct, clutch pedals are history, and everything has to have an ipod and a blue tooth now a days. Not to mention the gps tracking and black boxes. And 22" tires. Just not the same anymore... The TR interior looks like a model T ford compared to the newest Ferrari's with all kinds of stuff all over the insides. TV screens, buttons, weird air vents that look like they are jumping out at you.

    On the $264k sale, it could be that a couple of 20 year old dot com billionaires were playing chicken in the auction house, but I highly doubt it. Alternatively, it could have been a single 20 year old dot com billionaire, who had never been to an auction, bidding against a chandelier. We will have to see who bought the car. It had to be real money though, because they would not have allowed the chandelier to bid that high. Too brazen. Another thing, we will have to make sure the buyer actually paid for the car. Sometimes, they don't pay, and it takes a while for the auction results to get amended.
     
  9. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
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    Is there such a be boxer around ? Would be curious what one of those would fetch.

    Good TRs should get top dollar, it's a great car. Hopefully a few of those subpar 45 grand cars that are swamp like get crushed or parted out for the benefit of the rest of us.
     
  10. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

    Oct 2, 2011
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    Panzer
    CHA CHING !!!! Thats the sound of our TR's going up in value gentlemen!!!!!! Makes one all warm and fuzzy inside!!!! :D
     
  11. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,370
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    Rob C.
    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but history has shown that true time capsule cars play by their own rules. All it takes is two very wealthy people at the same auction remembering how that was they car they dreamt of when they were younger and seeing a chance to have a brand new one all logic goes out the window. It is a 'gotta have it because another does not exist' instance where one bidder needs to break the other.

    Think what you will but this sale in no way represents the state of the Testarossa market. Now if multiple cars that are comparable and realistic start selling for huge money then that is another story. This one is a one of a kind and to be honest if I had big bucks I'd totally ignore the market to buy it at any price because there just is not another one out there. Basic supply and demand.
     
  12. Mario Pano

    Mario Pano Formula Junior

    May 24, 2006
    273
    Where ever fun goes
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    Mario
    Nothing to do with Tr values.
    It was anew car.
    The only one!
    That is to the perfect point for soemto understand the difference in value of truly low miles and original versus restored.

    Find another like it!!!!!
    That is why.

    Mario
     
  13. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

    Oct 2, 2011
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    Respectfully disagree. The value of this vehicle sets the benchmark for others. As each TR is either destroyed by accidents or owner neglect, the bench mark rises. While it may not be overnight, in time I see the market moving upward simply because of a reduction in supply and outstanding units being sought by collectors. Demand for drivers will also increase simply because there will be fewer of them. You know,.....that supply-demand thingy ! :)
     
  14. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Aug 5, 2007
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    Philly suburbs
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    Joe
    It is beyond cavil that the best examples will fetch the highest prices. However, a rising tide raises all ships. I acknowledge that this 240K auction price may be an anomaly. However, this may be the tipping point for the TR. Auto prices are reflective of perception more than reality. With Hemmings and other major magazines beginning to see the Testarossa as the next big Ferrari collector car, I think we are seeing the first glimpses of investors reconsidering the Testarossa. Its not a coincidence, and perhaps more relevant, that a buyer also paid approx 104K for Sandy Eggo's exceptional example.

    Although I don't follow the entire TR market, I can say pretty confidently that early TR's have definitely seen a significant uptick in demand. I agree that they are probably not going to be in the triple digit price range in the short term, but in 5 years I believe they will be priced similarly to 512 bib's. The kids who had Testarossas on their wall as children are just reaching the station in their life where they can afford their dream cars. There are far more of them than there are Testarossas, so I predict prices to rise accordingly.
     
  15. andre#4

    andre#4 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2011
    36
    Just being a new car is not the point. I have seen new cars sell for $6,000. The point is it is a new TR. TR is key...Selling for double the price it has sold for last time. That is appreciation. No way to deny it. Last time that car sold, it was for probably 1/2 that amount. Once some TR's appreciate, the others will too. Obviously best cars come first, it always happens that way. Surely they won't be worth the same as an unused model, but certainly they will appreciate. Otherwise this one would not have appreciated either.

    Just look at the auction estimate of $130-$160. That is what the original price was approximately, right? That is what it was thought it would sell for, because it was still a new car. (if it had been used the estimate would be $50k). So, since the car had been flatlining for all these years, it was expected to sell at new sticker price. Because nobody expected this car, as new and rare as it was, to bring any more than sticker. This was an unexpected result. And it is about damn time. Thank you very much.

    I'll bet there are probably at least 5-10 more unused tr's around. The owners are not members here. There were billionaires in the 1980's who bought things just to own them. Not to use them. Some bought just to invest. If they didn't sell in time, and market crashed in 1990, as it did, then they would have just kept the car in storage, because they would not be willing to sell for less than sticker. These will be uncovered as the principals die and heirs disseminate the estates. I'll bet that at least 5 more are found in the next 20 years. Do not assume this was the only one. There are warehouses in NYC and other places, filled with cars. Lots of the collections even have curators. The owners don't even take care of the cars, or even see them in some cases. Lots of these people don't toot their own horns, so we don't know about them. Plus, the TR they bought new is probably the least important thing in the collection anyway. I've known some of these guys. There are estates all up in the Somerset Hills of NJ, where billionaires have huge barns and garage complexes, filled with cars that are totally off the radar. These guys are busy in NYC making deals and having lunch. The country house and grounds is maintained by staff servants, who wouldn't dare talk about their owners. Uh, I mean, employers.

    I remember when Dino's were $15k and it was said that they would not appreciate. For a whole host of reasons. [Not a Ferrari, not enough cylinders, too many made, not a heavyweight.] I wonder, after the appreciation started, how long did the people continue to say it would not appreciate? Are there still people saying this? At what point did the prices stop the naysayers?

    If it really was just someone who wanted a new TR, why not stop at double or triple the price of a used one? $100k-$150k would have been insane enough of a price to pay. The idea to pay $264,000 is a new day. When other people see this, and see what the Dino did, I'll bet it has an effect. It is bound to start sometime, and usually it starts with a prominent sale of an excellent example.

    And, can someone tell me what it is about the Testarossa that makes it unable to do what the Dino does? If a 6 cyl Dino can fly, why not a 12 cyl icon of a whole generation? I mean, what makes the Dino worth 6 times the money? To me, that is like a 914 being worth 6 times the price of a 911 turbo. Or a corvair vs. a corvette. Do the Dino owners believe they have 6 times the car? Maybe I am missing something. Or, maybe the TR just has not had it's day yet because it is newer?
     
  16. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Lets not forget That the CT still demands very strong money.

    Joe said it best...high tide raises all boats. Every TR gets a bump when these over bidders play tennis.
     
  17. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
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    T. Monma
    Do the readers of this posting honestly believe that an unusually rare "barn" find of a "new" car with 129 miles-not saying good, or bad, as to the car, the concept, or the amount seen fit to accquire such an odddity-has ANY real world commercial impact on the value of the USED car market for this model?
    Fellas.....c'mon....
    20% of these cars are worth more as parts stashes than as rolling cars....just ask TS!
     
  18. Mario Pano

    Mario Pano Formula Junior

    May 24, 2006
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    Mario
    Some good points raised here about TRs
    They are great cars and they have their value.
    The dollar amount is going to depend on their value first as how desirable are they by how many and next and most important how many of them are available against the ones that value them.
    This new car is desirable as being one of one and there is more than one person that would like one like that.
    That drives the prize.
    This does not mean that other cars that are not new will have any relationship to value as that one but it also means that the Tr market is at the bottom at one quarter of that.

    Now if someone has a car like this ,one owner, that is original paint ,as new condition and unrestored running and showing as new with 10k on the odo what would it bring at the same auction?

    Mario
     
  19. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    From your mouth to god's ears.

    One can only hope that you are correct.
     
  20. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Aug 5, 2007
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    Again...everyone is focusing on the wrong auction IMHO... Sandy Eggo's auction results are far more impressive IMHO!
     
  21. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    I think Mr Zaff has made the point. While the RM Auctions car brings up the value for all TR's, the pricing of Sandy Eggo's TR is also helping to raise market value of those that are drivers. It simply shows that TR's are gaining recognition & market value. In time we will see the numbers rise to a point where people will want the TR simply because few will be left. The last TR at Barrrett-Jackson brought over 78k for it and from what I understand it wasn't a primo piece. Nice driver, but nothing like the RM TR.
     
  22. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2010
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    Good thing high priced escorts don't raise the value of the cheap crack whores.
     
  23. red3555gtb

    red3555gtb Formula 3
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    Lol, you are on top of your game.
     
  24. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    +1
     
  25. racco

    racco Karting
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    Nov 4, 2005
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    +2
     

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