F1 downshifting technique | FerrariChat
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F1 downshifting technique

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by OldSlowpoke, May 12, 2012.

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  1. OldSlowpoke

    OldSlowpoke Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    491
    Longmont, CO
    Full Name:
    Bill
    #1 OldSlowpoke, May 12, 2012
    Last fall I bought a 2001 360 Modena with F1 transmission. I have put about 1500 miles on it, mostly in suburban Denver traffic. I have some questions about downshifting technique. The following scenario is a typical situation in which I'm not sure how best to downshift:

    I am driving at 65 mph in 6th gear and need to make a sharp 90-degree right-hand turn onto a street with a 45-mph speed limit, but I can't take the corner at 45 mph. I need to downshift to take the corner at about 25-30 mph. I would like to go down to second gear. In my Porsche Cayman S with a 6-speed manual transmission, I can make a smooth 6-2 downshift with heel-and-toe double-clutching technique, with no wear on either the clutch or the synchros.

    In the 360, when I have rowed down through the gears, 6-5-4-3-2, I have on a few occasions ended up in first gear unintentionally at high rpm (about 7000)--obviously not a good thing. I watch the road and not the instruments, so I'm not sure how that happens. Maybe I can't count! That's possible, but I have the impression that the transmission throws in an automatic shift that I don't notice and when I count down to second I am actually going into first. Maybe at some point in the braking process my engine rpm drops low enough to induce an automatic shift.

    Following advice in some postings on F1 clutch wear, I have also tried just putting the transmission in neutral as I was braking and squeezing a paddle when I was ready to accelerate. I have tried both the upshift and downshift paddles for this technique. Either way, I don't get the gear I want; I have ended up anywhere from 6th to 3rd gear this way, and I have no control over what gear gets selected.

    Any advice on how to get the gear I want? Thanks for your help.

    Bill Terry
     
  2. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2001
    2,404
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    #2 alberto, May 12, 2012
    Unless there's a secret way to do that, you pretty much have to treat the f1 tranny as a sequential gearbox; one gear change at a time.
     
  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,632
    #3 Mitch Alsup, May 12, 2012
    One of the many reasons a manual is so much more satisfying.....
     
  4. donho

    donho Karting

    Oct 11, 2006
    154
    Naples, FL
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #4 donho, May 15, 2012
    My guess is that you're waiting a little too long to make your downshifts and you're overlapping with the software's shift points. The transmission's automatic downshifts, as I'm sure you've experienced, come very late. You should avoid jumping down two or more gears at one time while decelerating.

    Going to neutral is worse, because the car will re-engage in the highest gear available for your current speed.

    I would suggest the following. Drive the car on various routes you're familiar with, letting the car downshift automatically as you corner. You should find that, except under hard braking, the transmission will shift down through each gear, if only for a second or two. Observe the transmission's behavior and note the downshifts. I'm suggesting this for learning purposes only. You'll never be in the right gear for cornering using this method. The 360 doesn't have enough torque. Also, the transmission was designed for driver involvement.

    Then I would suggest that you practice downshifting in sport mode, where the transmission is more responsive. Start by planning to spend at least 1 to 2 seconds in each gear and make your first downshift sufficiently back from the corner and at a speed higher than that which would trigger the automatic shift. After a while, it'll become second nature. Driving this way will seem aggressive (even unnecessary) compared to the harder braking, single shift in your Cayman, but it is the way sequential transmissions work.
     
  5. OldSlowpoke

    OldSlowpoke Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    491
    Longmont, CO
    Full Name:
    Bill
    #5 OldSlowpoke, May 15, 2012
    Thanks, donho. I'll try that.

    Bill
     
  6. sevminasyan

    sevminasyan Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2008
    1,156
    Glendale, CA
    Full Name:
    Steve
    #6 sevminasyan, May 15, 2012
    Try this:

    Going 80 in 6th and need to downshift into 2nd or 3rd at lower speed or to lower speed.
    Step one pop into neutral with left and right paddles. Brake hard to reduce speed then shift up. It will recognize the speed you are on and will shift accordingly into 2nd or 3rd.
    Again, not the same as a manual but hey, got to do what we can :)
     
  7. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,646
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    #7 Elsi, May 16, 2012
    Bill – Did you try to double shift by double pulling the left paddle (similar to double clicking with the mouse)? In my 575M you can pull the left paddle twice (or even three times) in a very short time and it will downshift from 6th to 4th directly without going into 5th. I don’t know if the 360 also will do this but it might be worth a try. It also works the other way round when double pulling the right paddle to go up two gears at a time. Maybe this is limited to Sport mode or normal mode.

    Another thought: Either you are cruising around in 6th gear with 65 miles. Then it may be OK to go back to only 4th or third gear to enter the corner. Or you are driving quite spirited and then you would not cruise in 6th but downshift earlier to this corner to 4th (still on the straight line) to shift down to 2nd right before the corner.

    Hope this helps.

    Markus
     
  8. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    #8 vincenzo, May 16, 2012
    Newbe question -
    Isn't there an auto mode that will shift down to the appropriate gear without a sequential shift pattern?
    Going thru all the gears seems like a waste of time and effort
    -as well as-
    a hindrance to precision braking....
    not to mention all the synchro wear.

    Surely (?) the computer is more sophisticated than 'just' sequential downshifts....

    Rgds,
    Vincenzo

    PS: call me click clack - old school, 3 pedal
     
  9. OldSlowpoke

    OldSlowpoke Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    491
    Longmont, CO
    Full Name:
    Bill
    #9 OldSlowpoke, May 21, 2012
    Thanks to all who gave me their advice. I think I have finally made friends with the F1 transmission.

    The 360 owner's manual says that you should wait for each shift to finish before starting the next one. I think I was waiting too long and in fact was getting the revs too low and getting an auto-shift among my commanded shifts. As donho suggested, one second is plenty long enough to wait, and that keeps the revs high enough to prevent uncommanded auto-shifts.

    I went on a tour with the Ferrari Club yesterday and got to exercise the car on mountain roads as Enzo intended. I had no issues with the shifting.

    As for the relative merits of manual versus paddle-shift transmissions, I really enjoy a stick shift, and I take pride in being able to heel-and-toe and double-clutch. I don't think you can consider yourself a really accomplished driver unless you can heel-and-toe (double-clutching may be an anachronism, but so am I). However, the F1 transmission has its virtues too. There's a reason paddle shifters are used in race cars. But this subject has been beaten to death on other threads.

    Bill
     

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