Define Smooth | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Define Smooth

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by Texas Forever, Jun 24, 2011.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,150
    way north california
    Full Name:
    chris morse
    You can practice smooth every day, it is a mental exercise, constant focus in perception and awareness of where you are on the road and the "balance of the car". Just do it at 4/10ths.

    Pushing the car to its limit of adhesion requires any input to be gradual, (not necessarily slow) but in sync with the loading of the chasis, so that the tire is not pushed beyond the traction circle.

    If the driver is smooth with his inputs, he is more able to keep the car onthe very edge of adhesion. Too much boot or brake and the car is rapidly exploring the nether regions of the track where the dreaded marbles and greasemud lurk. Not often fast and most likely not repeatably fast, (to paraphrase my hero Carroll Smith).


    :)
    chris
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
    socal
    No I'm serious and facetious at the same time. "Seat time is a waste of time for most" because they practice the same errors over again. They will get lucky and knock of 3/10ths but have no idea where or why and can't do it repeatedly. One poster illuded to this after his light bulb went on after 8 years of tracking. You can do it by yourself but it demands time and the ability to critically look at your flaws both mental and physical. That's why a pro coach is the answer. He can not only hone basics but dial in and evaluate data to prove what he says is true. Lets face it guys who race sort of have that big swing dick mentality. Most newbies on the track don't think about driver improvement because deep down "they hear you" but still think they are good drivers. That's why you tell them something and they go and make the mistake over and over again. Their first answer to going faster is often double adjustable shocks and a hot cam. Only after they get humbled a bit are they finally receptive to help.
     
  3. Seth Thomas

    Seth Thomas Karting

    Jan 25, 2006
    246
    Atlanta, Ga
    Full Name:
    Seth Thomas
    100% agree with Peter here. I spend the majority of my time with my clients coaching them on reinforcement of the basic techniques and how to do them correctly. The reason is not because they don't know them but it is fine tuning the techniques to help the client be smoother and more relaxed behind the wheel. They then find the difference in speed they are looking for isn't from trying to drive the car faster it is a bunch of small basics that add up to a big amount of time.

    Great example of this is with my co-driver last year at Barber. He was 2 seconds off my times. He was doing everything he could to find the extra time he needed to be fast. This was his major problem, he was trying to drive too fast and it was making his lap times be 2 seconds off. At most of the turns around the track I would be 1 MPH faster at turn-in, he would be 1 MPH faster than me at apex but I would be 2 MPH faster at track out. In his mind he was getting away from some of the basics of driving and trying to drive fast. He was overloading the tires to the apex which hurt his run out of the turn.
     
  4. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    #29 Texas Forever, Jul 12, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011
    Two thoughts on "hands."

    1. I was fortunate to get Ara Malkhassian (google ARLA Racing) as my first instructor. (He probably didn't consider himself fortunate after getting in the jump seat, but I digress.) He said the key to going fast in a SM was to turn once on the entry and then let the wheel unwind after the apex. He said sawing at the wheel takes off too much speed, which in a SM you never get back. (He also taught me how to threshold brake by having me imagine seeing my kid laying on the track at the right moment.)

    2. One trick they taught us at the Ferrari Driving School in Mt. Tremblant was to pull rather than push. If you want to go right, you should pull with your right hand, and not push with your left. The problem is guys have too much shoulder strength and if you push, you end up over turning. They also said the more powerful the car the lighter your hand inputs should be. If you have a death grip on the wheel, you'll end up over controlling.

    Dale

    PS I just saw where Ara did a 2:14.390 in a MX-5 car at VIR last year. Not bad for a chick car.
     
  5. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    15,057
    ny
    i have same situation as the op - i want to be smooth with slow hands, etc but cant seem to get it done. same as i want to dunk a basketball, hit a 150mph tennis serve, etc

    possible solution - i just got a new gtr that has instant readout of steering, brake, and gas pedal g forces. you can actually see a smooth readout vs a jagged one in real time. i think this will be a huge help to me.
     
  6. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,612
    Dallas, TX, USA
    If you are fortunate enough to have some non-straight roads that are fairly open certain times of day, I recommend practicing slow hands this way...

    As you approach a curve, try to start turning the wheel as far before the payment starts turning as possible, where you start moving your hands very very slowly. The car will turn almost none at all in the early stages of that because you just barely have the wheel turned.

    The goal is to NOT change the speed of your hands from the time you start all the way to apex or until the car is tracking parallel to the turning pavement, until you can SEE where the pavement will unwind, and similarly you want to start unwinding your hands equally slow, continuing to unwind well after the pavement has finished turning. (Again, in the later stages, the car will be turning almost not at all ... a good thing since the pavement is straight at that point... but you're hands will still be unwinding at the same slow rate.)

    As an aid in keeping your hands moving at a constant rate, pull down on the wheel with both arms... just pull less with one side or the other to let your hands turn.

    (I like to practice such things on the open road when otherwise my mind would be wandering, such that they become second nature ... on the track, at the limits of adhesion, my brain has other things to occupy itself with than how slow my hands are moving. ;))
     
  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
    socal
    I'd like to hear what the pro coaches have to say about "slow hands" since I'm just an amateur racer hack. I don't believe in slow hands. I think "slow hands" is a technique that people talk about that is really missing the point of the concept of "anticipation." I think slow handed people are not at the limit and when they cross the limit they wonder why the just spun.
     
  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    FBB, this is all you need to know --

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOI8ae3Lub8&feature=related[/ame]
     
  9. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2007
    91,702
    slow hands? crap. I've been driving with jazz hands.
     
  10. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,612
    Dallas, TX, USA

    Slow hands is a crutch. The real point is to minimize inputs that unsettle the car. A pro driver who is keeping the car at the limit through a long turn will be moving his hands all over the place in order to keep the car settled. But if you suggest an amateur driver should be moving his hands similar, you won't be doing them a favor!!

    Most drivers tend to give too much input... tend to move their hands more than necessary... so, encouraging them to slow down their inputs is a good thing. And to do that, yes they will need to anticipate more. But its hard to measure anticipation... it is easy to measure the speed of your hands.

    However, with that said, I highly recommend good autocross schools even for those who just want to road race... because the good autocross schools teach "looking ahead"... another form of anticipation... but again, a more physical direction... never look at the corner you're in... its too late to do anything about that anyway... you should always be looking at the next corner and how you will navigate it to setup the corner after (two corners ahead). That's a lot easier to practice when the only thing you can hit is some cones.
     
  11. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,407
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    +1

    Looking back I think there were two keys that made me an average driver or little better.

    1) Autocross - looking ahead like Brian said, but also being technical with braking points, lines, and not hitting the cone by less than a foot.

    2) Ride Along - I hit a plateau being consistent middle of the pack a couple seconds off the fast guys. The big breakthrough was doing a ride along with one of those fast drivers. He scared the heck out of me, but in my own race car I felt the sensation and G's of what going through a corner fast meant.
     
  12. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,464
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    Yep. Your @$$ became calibrated properly! <grin>
     
  13. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    Damn, I shoulda have posted that Sade vid. I had forgotten how good she is. What was this thread all about anyway?

    No need to ask...

    Dale
     
  14. CRG125

    CRG125 F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2005
    2,581
    Los Angeles, Ca
    Full Name:
    Vivek
    IMO here is a good example of being smooth.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1lDla7r9JY[/ame]
     

Share This Page