Yes -- I have 3.5 liters...in my Toyota Avalon. Not as fun in the corners, but does run door-to-door with my 3.2 328.
You mean this? http://www.carobu.com/html/308_qv.html I'd love to do it...but I think I read somewhere that it's $25,000.00. Not worth it to me.
Yeah. Seriously thinking of shipping what's left of my car down there or doing something with nick forza. Now that I'm starting over with my engine, I'm a bit overwhelmed with the options.
Wouldn't I need to beef the motor up a lot to hanel all that boost? Wouldn't that also shorten the life of the engine?
This is a problem, when you're plotting a $20K+ rejigger of everything inside the block? Read this: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42923 and http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149899
Just get it up and running as intended would be my vote, unless you want to open the door for the same you've endured. Stock, these are great cars.
I don't think I'd ever try and extract too much power from these engines. They are already at a disadvantage when it comes to displacement. Unless a full understanding is achieved how a modern 3.5 liter V6 manages to put out so much power and do so reliably for the long term, you'd be compromising reliability way too much. Besides, as others have said, enjoy the car for what it is. But I have wondered...Why did Ferrari go with such small displacements on their engines? For the money these went for when new, gas mileage and/or taxes wouldn't have mattered for the buyers. Think how fast these would scoot with 5.0 liter engines...What if the 12 cylinder models were seven liters instead of just five?! High RPM performance you say? Neutering a smaller displacement high RPM engine for the street gives you what you got...
Stop thinking like an American and imagine yourself in Europe in the early 1970's... Back in the days, IN EUROPE, cars were puttering around with engines ranging between 500 and 1600 cc. So the 3 liter V8's and 5 liter V12's were already ridiculously powerful. On occasions, when driving along in my 1974 GT4, I come across a "sporty" car from that era and pull up alongside. They invariably are doing 55 mph at most. Exchange a few waves, shift back two gears and floor the accelerator and all you'll see is a rapidly thrinking dot in your rearview mirror. Back in 1974 this was a jaw-droppingly fast car (here in Europe), and the fact that after 37 years it can still outrun 85% of what it comes across on the roads (again, here in Europe) is in my book nothing short of amazing...
I just paid $$$ to have my engine rebuilt after a catastrophic disaster like yours. I left things pretty much stock, except for custom Weisco pistons that raised the CR to about 9.7:1. I haven't actually driven it yet, but the initial report from fastradio is that the torque increase is quite pleasing.
Check with Nicks Forza as well. They have done some increasing of the displacement as well. After speaking with them both I felt that Nicks was a better engineered package. PDG
It seems that rebuilding my engine right will cost well over 20k so why not throw an extra few thousand I. and make the car more fun?
What ever you think it's going to cost, figure on possibly doubling that. If you can do it for anything near $20k, you'll have done a lot better than I did.
IIRC, in Italy, cars are taxed on displacement. This tended to keep displacement small. I don't know what year your car is, (carbs, or the more restrictive,detuned injected models), but the 308 engine is already in a fairly high state of tune, developing over 1 hp/cu.in. going up from here is quite expensive as many have shown. What needs to be replaced? Go stock or Up grade those parts to keeep the cost down. For a starter, if the pistons are worn, hell even if they aren't worn, i'd go for a cr bump, as has been mentioned. If it is a 2v, definitely dump the sodium valves. Then, it is a question of how much you want to play and pay. The stock bottom end is reputed to be very stout and those going turbo or supercharger have not faulted it. There is no doubt that EFI is the most effective, (mileage and power/driveability). I occasionally track my 77, so better water and oil cooling became important than more power. I suspect that if you go with bigger displacement you will need more water and oilcooling too. As has been recommended, build it stock except for higher compression maybe EFI and if your cams need grinding/replacement, go with a bit more lift and stronger profile. Beyond this point, you are paying a lot more for each additional pony, (or stalion, as the case may be). my .02, chris
I have said it before and I'll say it again the best way to get cheap, proven, reliable HP out of these cars is to swap a set of Webers on either a QV or a 328 motor. You are looking at about 270hp or 290hp right out of the box. Obviously this isn't going to be route for everybody, and this might entail an engine swap as opposed to an engine rebuild, but I am going to keep bringing this up until somebody else does it,.....or I do it.
EFI will get you more ponies that webers. Go with either the TWM or the Jenvey throttle bodies, go up to 44 mm for that, you'll lose the venturi and the crap in the intake that the webers do have, get a Euro air filter unit that normally comes with the weber cars (without the sound deadening material in it), and you'll be looking at 265 hp from a 2V 308, 280 from a QV or 300 from a 328....
A friend of mine had his engine serviced and upgraded at corabu. I think he has a 430. He said they did a great job. Their reputation is top notch, so if you decide to go for it that is probably the place to go.
I've always tweaked and tinkered with my cars. You can do EFI, Webers, etc...all comes down to how much do you want to spend? The people that have done these mods are probably very happy with their investments. I, myself, would love to have Russ's Weberized 3.2 motor. The 3.5 is probably a great motor (how much it affects reliability is unknown). These motors are actually pretty stout...I've got 111k on mine and I drive the snot out of it. Also, even if the reliability is compromised somewhat, are you really using this car as a daily driver? I recently installed euro cams into my '78 and am thrilled with the results. I probably gained 10-15 hp (but am telling people about 20), runs smoother, and the torque curve seems much flatter. Good luck.
As much as I love the 308, the technology is dated. Punching out the motor and upping the horsepower can only go so far and still be reliable. Changes in suspension geometry and engine management over the years make more of a difference in performance than most people realize. Want a faster better handling more reliable Ferrari? A used 360 would cost about the same as your 3.5 liter conversion with everything else needed. I see the 308 for what it really is. A beautiful 70's design based on 60's racing technology. All the Best! Dave
Good points Dave. Due to totally unexpected events, I now have a 308 that is already paid off with a flawless paint job, updated suspension bushings, heater hoses, fuel lines, euro conversion and a few other upgrades that escape me now. Having said that, I have no working motor. Where do I go from here? Do I sell what I have for scrap and then fork out an extra $60k for a 360? Do I fix the engine on the cheap for $10-15k? And continue on with the 160-180hp. Do I drop $30k or so and end up with a high HP engine that throws me back in the seat? I am doing as much research as I can right now. I don't know what the maintenance costs are on a 360 vs a rebuilt 308. I am looking at getting a 355 but a lot of information that I am getting days that they are much more expensive to maintain than a 308 or a 360. I'm thinking that if caribou or Nick Forza build me a motor, that it will be reliable for years to come and I'll know exactly what I have as opposed to the unknowns one adopts when buying a used Ferrari.
Think of an aluminum block engine as a candle....... You can light both ends, as William Shakespear has noted...
Correct a 355 is about 2x "to run" than either the 308 or a later 360..or maybe I mean "to break"!!! LOL!