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Flight Surgeon's Corner

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by snj5, Jan 21, 2011.

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  1. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    Russ Turner
    #1 snj5, Jan 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
    I thought I would start a small aviation medicine and general medical thread where I can impart my vast (and not so vast) knowledge and experience as a Flight Surgeon. I encourage my other bretheren to chime in as well. These are just my opinions, mind you.
    #1.
    As a Flight Surgeon, I am often approached at parties and elsewhere for opinions on "Alternative Therapy" for aviators -- Tonight I was told about The "Healing Waters Institute" offering "Colon Hydrotherapy". For all my friends out there, let me surmize my impression:
    "You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll crap $350 goodbye".
     
  2. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #2 Bob Parks, Jan 22, 2011
    Hmmm, there is another outfit up here that I wondered about called the "Upyours Irrigation Company". I wonder if they are related.
     
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #3 rob lay, Jan 22, 2011
    Why is the FAA medical process so dysfunctional? On one side the “popular” DME’s are an assembly line that don’t really test you, they just take your money and submit the paper work. Ones that actually test you aren’t popular and don’t last long while other doctors make a career out of assembly line medicals in/out 5 minutes. On the flip side if you get flagged for something like I did once for a less than 20/20 corrected hokey wall chart test I am in seemingly endless cycle of 6-12 month medicals and $200 eye exams and long form paperwork.
     
  4. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 donv, Jan 22, 2011
    By far the worse aspect of this is the number of pilots who do not take medicines which could help them in the long term, because they don't want to deal with reporting it, and/or meeting any special requirements.

    If you really want to hear stories about the medical process, ask any ATC specialist. They all have stories...

     
  5. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #5 snj5, Jan 22, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
    The relationships between aviators and physicians has long been a love/hate relationship, caused in no small part to the extremes in personalities of both groups. Most pilots will say whatever they need to to get the certificate, while the Aeromedical Examiner's actions can be roundly influenced by their personality (or personality disorder). The FAA and military try to "regulate out" the effects of personality effects, but with mixed success. So, as you know, there are good ones and bad ones. Some are in the Aeromedical Cert practice because they love it, and as a duty to the aviator and all whom he flies with and over; some see it more as a business.

    The early military aviators figured out (and are nowadays forgetting) that docs with constant exposure to aviation, and even better if they flew, were the best chance at getting level headed medical flying dispositions and the orientation that the docs were there to keep the guys flying.

    Of course, the ultimate irony is that aviators themselves, because of the above observations, spawned the entire field of aerospace medicine. One of my WW1 heroes and famed German aviator, Oswald Boelke, publically stated that it made a very big difference to get away from traditional military docs and see physicians familiar with the aviation environment. So, Military Aviation in the Great War essentially birthed Aviation Medicine into most of what we know it as today for both military and civilian pilots.

    My advice to all my friends is to at all costs, find a flight surgeon/AME that understands and loves flying, and is committed to keeping you safely in the air. As a great benefit, he will also work to keep you in all around good health as well, which is all the FAA is really looking for.

    Our next lesson this week will be "What goes into the Fly/NoFly decision?"
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 tazandjan, Jan 22, 2011
    Russ- You should do a tutorial on fighter jock physical fitness regimens. I have done a couple of comments on the dangers of low blood pressure, etc, but am sure you can add quite a bit.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  7. kylec

    kylec F1 Rookie
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    #7 kylec, Jan 23, 2011
    For a while I was trying to get my wife to look into aerospace medicine. Then she decided to change her specialty from IM to Peds. Not to many pediatric aviators.
     
  8. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #8 snj5, Jan 23, 2011
    .

    Just a short preview - Flying, and inparticular high performance flying, is an isometric anaerobic activity. As anyone who has done it will tell you, it can be quite the workout leaving quite drained. It is VERY important that in doing sustained high performance (high-g) maneuvers, you have to be in pretty good shape - so a balanced anaerobic/aerobic training program is best. There is a predilection these days to focus on just aerobic training, but is flying, it's the anerobic part (think weight lifting) that allows max performance under G.

    We'll talk about why this week as well.

    Gnite all.
     
  9. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #9 snj5, Jan 23, 2011
    The old joke is that pediatrics is a perfect background in caring for pilots....
     
  10. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    #10 Gatorrari, Jan 23, 2011
    I always thought that the old Errol Flynn/Fred MacMurray movie called "Dive Bomber" should have been called "Flight Surgeon", but then I guess that no one would have gone to see it! If you want to see a good historical aspect of the flight surgeon's art (circa 1938), go check it out.
     
  11. Bob Parks

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    #11 Bob Parks, Jan 23, 2011
    This remends me of the Canadian pilot that I befriended in the 60's who was doing airshow displays with the Golden Centennaires( now Snowbirds). He flew a Northrop F-28 as the solo performer and did a 360 degree turn in afterburner within the confines of the airport pulling 7 1/2 G WITHOUT a G suit. Both he and his alternate "couldn't function" while wearing one. He said that he grayed- out and " went to sleep" briefly as he was completing the turn and recovered as he was climbing away. Two years later he lost his medical and was grounded from the acummulated damage.
     
  12. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 donv, Jan 23, 2011
    I would never go to an AME who wasn't a pilot.

    As for keeping in you good health, my AME does exactly what the book says. No more and no less. I prefer it that way.

     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 tazandjan, Jan 23, 2011
    Don- Most AF flight surgeons are not pilots, so that might be a bit extreme.

    Russ- Did you have to do the altitude chamber along with the rest of us? Since you flew quite a bit, I would imagine the answer was yes.

    How much fighter time did you actually get to log? I remember the 846 had a code for flight surgeons.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  14. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    #14 MarkPDX, Jan 24, 2011
    Sometimes while flying I have to pee but am lacking any traditional receptacles in which to urinate. There is of course very convenient sextant port that one could theoretically pee out of but I'm worried about getting my pecker sucked into the thing. Am I risking my manhood by relieving myself through a navigational device?

    Secondary question.... While TDY without a flight surgeon available how should a PCOD be established? I ask of course purely for the benefit of my friends.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 tazandjan, Jan 24, 2011
    Mark- You need some piddle packs, available widely as war surplus.

    PCOD was pretty much applicable only to East Asia and has not been much of an issue in SWA.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  16. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #16 snj5, Jan 24, 2011
    Isn't the sextant port on the top of the cockpit compartment? and it also, i don't think you would get a seal...

    The highly scientific and magical determination of PCOD and confidence shots was passed down among flight surgeons stationed at Clark. The attendant GGFSF (Guilt Gifts for Sport F, GGs for short) was also dependant on where you were. As Taz has accurately pointed out, there were more of a Pacific Rim (no pun here) thing. Of course now with the things floating around out there, there is much less going without a saddle.

    But, another rule passed down among deploying flight surgeons is, "where ever people go, they will try to breed". In SWA, based on my humble experience, you might should be more worried about VERY long term consequences, especially ones that look like you. In every deployment kit, we always carried pregnancy tests, and usually ran out and ordered some more.
     
  17. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #17 snj5, Jan 24, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
    Not only the altitude chamber - this old fart had to qualify on the sling-n-puke on the F-16 initial profile with 9 Gs for 20 seconds or something as the grand finale. Good thing I'm hypertensive.

    And there I am in water survival at Cubi, floating by myself as shark snack somewhere 2 miles off Luzon in my one man raft dorking with my mirror,as that was the ONLY way I was getting out of there.

    I imagine I have a few hundred fighter hours - I remember 250 or so in Phantoms and about 100 in F-15s, maybe a bit less in Lawn Darts. I have 250 hours in T-33s which I am kinda proud of. Of course, in PACAF, you racked up a lot of Airevac time on the now extinct C-9.
    For me the F-4 was a great FS plane as you HAD to crew, and you were by yourself in the back. This really taught a flight surgeon a lot about what mission stresses were as you were responsible, and youwere the gib that had certain stuff. I was very lucky to be assigned to great squadrons as well, my fav being my G weasel time with the 81 at Spang.

    More medical stuff tonight
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 tazandjan, Jan 24, 2011
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    Russ- That is actually quite a bit of fighter time. I would have loved any jet trainer time. I even missed the T-43. My blood pressure was usually right on the limit and would be well over now if unmedicated. I chapped off the F-16 guys because I could talk to them no matter how many "g"s they pulled, all the way up to 9. Being short and hypertensive were perfect for high "g", just not necessarily for longevity after the AF.

    My brother was an EWO at Spang from about 86-88 and went to Bahrain with the 561st for Desert Shield, but returned with back problems before Desert Storm kicked off. Mike Phillips.

    This should look familiar to any crew member, although I never used one in my 18 or so years of flying. Beats hanging from the fuselage top trying to use a sextant port, gravity being what it is, and I have never seen an aircraft with a sextant port that would comfortably fly inverted. At least the T-29Cs I flew could not.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
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  19. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 donv, Jan 24, 2011
    There is no lav on the C-130?

     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 tazandjan, Jan 24, 2011
    C-130s had a urinal pretty much for men only and a "honey bucket" you were really discouraged from using. Not sure what is on the late H and J models. Most of my pax time is in the E (USAFE) with a little B time. Saw 320 KTAS in a B model, a real hot rod with no external tanks.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  21. mcbuff

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    #21 mcbuff, Jan 24, 2011
    The T-34c (maybe the A/B did too) had a relief tube affectionately known as the standby ICS. I never used it but we heard plenty of stories of how they would sometimes drain slowly and your in-flight pee would turn into an excruciating ten minutes. MD didn't engineer any way to take care of business in the T-45. Some guys carry a piddle pack, but I don't get using it in tight cockpit. I have no desire to stare at my own pee for the rest of the flight.
     
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 tazandjan, Jan 24, 2011
    Kevin- Some guys would carry one in their g-suit pocket for a long time, like the old prophylactic in the wallet. Then when they used them, they would leak like a sieve. I carried them for my pilots, but never used one myself. Lots of room in an F-111 cockpit and no ejection seat to foul.

    Normal sortie in an F-111 was about 3 hours and longer if you refueled. Some guys just did not have a bladder that could take that and up to an hour on the ground total before and after flight.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  23. MarkPDX

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    #23 MarkPDX, Jan 24, 2011
    Actually there is but if you are carrying a plane full of passengers it can be nearly impossible to get to the back.

    We were just talking about it in the office today. One of my buddies is about to head out the door for a location in that vicinity where you could get a $3 BJ by sticking it through the chain link perimeter fence. Apparently the practice became a little less popular after a few guys got the HIV. A couple of guys I know tried out the local talent which seems insane but so far I haven't heard of them catching anything.


    I have a few but have never used them...... I asked partly as a joke. My last deployment the wing commander couldn't make it to the back and went in a bottle. Rather than just toss it in the trash he got the bright idea to dump it out the sextant port but didn't get it all figured out and ended up dumping half a bottle of old man piss all over one of my buddies.
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 tazandjan, Jan 24, 2011
    Mark- Had to be something besides a sextant port, since they all look up (where the stars usually are located). Maybe a drift meter port? What kind of airplane was that, anyway? T-43?

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  25. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    #25 MarkPDX, Jan 24, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
    Nope, it's definitely the sextant port.... and it is looking up. When pressurized at altitude it will suck water out of a cup if you get it within a few inches. A bottle of water will get sucked empty and collapse in a couple seconds. I'm pretty sure that you could pee out of one if from the upper bunk with just a little bit of tricky bracing yourself.... But you would have to be really careful not to get your pecker too close because it would really be bad if you got too close and it got sucked in.

    One of my favorite stories was a guy at my previous location who shot the contents of a huge bag of Skittles out over the drop zone and called out "Taste the Rainbow" on the radio.

    I was always a little jealous of the P-3 because they had those neat sonde tubes in the back that stuff could be shot out of.
     
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