On which planet did a carb Boxer pass emissions? ) All kidding aside a couple of decades ago some owners did think updating w/ new model Boxer parts made it a better car. They were just exotic cars and not considered rare collectibles. Today look at the 550s that have 575 updates....wheels and tires and other performance components. Of course there were many more Maranellos built, but my point is the upgrading of models is not all that uncommon. Course if a car was wrecked all the more reason to put on new clamshells.
Not everything... but in general, and in my opinion, one should run at the mere mention of "Gullwing Motorcars". 'Nuff said.
Please correct me if I am wrong but at $129,500 this does not seem like a 'rock bottom' price for a 365 BB, especially not commensurate with the 'rock bottom' condition of the car. I had thought that if you looked hard enough you could find a pretty decent 512 BBi for just over $100k, and that 365 BBs commanded perhaps a $30-50k premium over the 512 BBis. In terms of Gullwing. I have long wanted to take a trip up there to see what this place is really like, and to see what the pictures don't show. I have a fondness for projects, and this seems like project car heaven (or hell ;-). That being said I could definitely see how a place like this might get a bad rap, especially for those who are uninitiated with projects or who look past the point of reason when they come down with a case of price tag fever. Here is a link to their Ebay feedback, quite what you might expect.... http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=AllFeedback&userid=pawar646&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&page=1
This is a 365 BB with a few bolt-on 512 parts. If I would get this car I would have it converted back to original specs in no time. But first the car would need a full and a very expensive restoration that would cost about $75-$100K. Therefore one would need to buy this car for about $70K. The price that's being asked is almost double the value. If the black color in the original color, that would make it sort of rare, as I don't believe there were many black 365 BB's produced. Some one needs to rescue this car and that some one should be Onno. He's cornered the market already, he has a holding majority. Geno. PS This early one piece seat car would of come with a briefcase type of tool kit, not the roll type shown on the ad.
I agree it started life as a 365, its just having an identity crisis right now. I would say its a 365 mechanically and under the skin, it was put back together using what was available. Why is anyones guess.
Try $200K + to restore a beat boxer plus the cost of the car. Good luck finding a 365BB clamshell, especially an early one with no louvers, having one made is another story $$$ either way. Talk about upside down before the paint was even applied! Give me the car for free and ill rescue it.
I know two of the previous owners, Bill Morrison & Rick Freed. I was actually driving the Boxer when the ring & pinion broke. John Hadjuk pulled the trans axle & it was repaired by Bob Wallace. Rick put a first class paint job on that car. At the time, the story was that the body mods were done at the factory. Rick also owned a 427/435 Corvette. He always said how much the faster the Boxer was at speeds over 100MPH!
I can get a very good result with just $100K on a car like the Boxer. Will it be a Pebble resto? No it would not. But more than enough to turn that turd of a car into a concourse quality 365 BB. It's who and what you know to get the car done at a reasonable cost. A $200K+ resto would apply to a car like the 250 GT/L I just restored. Geno. PS you're right about the clamshell. It would be hard to find a used one. Converting the one on the car to a 365 clamshell may be the way to go.
Or, perhaps someone should buy it at $90-95K, just enjoy it as a "driver", and split it up for parts when they're done with it??? --- not EVERY car HAS to be restored. I appreciate that the 365BB is indeed rare (and getting rarer), but classic cars such as the 365BB do need some which are relegated to be "donors" --- not restorations. After all, the already nice 365/512 Boxers out there are going to need the donations at some point in order to preserve their posterity. Ahem....I'm going to also suggest that at least a few of the current, 14 or so, owners of the original 250GTO's wouldn't be terribly devastated if a few of the cars got "totaled" tomorrow, as the value of their cars would increase and a few spare engines and gearboxes would be available
Geno, the cost is in the labour (parts aint cheap either), 250 lusso, boxer, 246 dino doesnt matter, even my 308GTB. As an example Legendary Motorcars starts at $100K to perform a restoration if it takes a year, parts are extra. More time = more money again. $100K would run out fast on any proper ferrari restoration whether it was concours or not.
If you look at JazzyO's post with the car's history the 1st 3 yrs of the car life are not noted. If this car was in Italy a first or early owner might have returned the car to the factory for the 512 updates. I believe 512s were built starting in 1976. Maybe even late '75. This would be consistent w/ what was done with my former carb 512 by the 2nd owner.....'cept mine was a '76 BB s/n21171 that had BBi updating. That might confirm the "story" of the mods noted above.
No thanks, I only need one decent 365BB and I'm starting with a better car for less money than the one on eBay. Inspected mine last Saturday, it's a decent car with no major issues. Last 365BB was built in May 1976 (14 of the last 15 are completed in 1976, March - May), I have no evidence that there was any 1975 production for 512 parts. The most logical thing I can think of, given that the mods were already done in 1978, is that the owner tried to cash in on the 512BB being the current model but not availabe in the US. According to Nathan Beehl's registry, this car has the following info: Nero Tropicale Nero LHD Italy 1st Ravizza/Italy Scaglietti Berlinetta, Chassis #052, Assy #068, Body #066, Ex Richard Freed/IL '07/88, So, it seems it was indeed delivered in Italy. But to me it reads that the 512 updates were done in the US. I could be wrong, who knows. Onno
The Protoype 512BB, Engine #00004 was mid 1976 ...any 5.0 liter engines before that were on a stand in the Dyno room....IMO
Still wondering where that car turned up and how much it went for. It actually could have been a good opportunity for a buyer to buy a Boxer at a 'disposable' price have some with it and then sell it off at a 'disposable' price again down the road.
You referring to the red/blk 512BB that was formerly black? http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270409
Somehow I think you merged Spasso's and my posts together, but that would be the car that I was referring to and what I believed that Spasso was referencing to as well.
Yes, but that connection to this one has been disproven I think by the chronological history of this car in a previous post. The 512 additions were added decades ago according to that.
I think that the "aproprietly low" price for the '74 is somewhat lower than the current asking price. I never meant to imply that the current price is low. I personally wouldn't go anywhere near there. To the right party, I'm guessing maybe $95K.
Newman- This Boxer does not need to have $200K spent on it. What da hell are you restoring a TDF or a SWB? Here is the break down: $12-15K for either to replace all components or to re-manufacture the existing clamshell + needed parts to get the car back to it's 365 formation, $15K for body and paint, $12K for interior work (includes the inside the front bonnet), $10-12K for engine/trans 30K service (assuming no mechanical rebuild, w/new clutch assemb.), $5-7K for suspension, $5K for tires and restoration of wheels, $4K for gages/electrical, $5K for misc. cosmetic restoration such as frame and plating work, $3K breaks, $10K contingency = $88K Mucho $$$$ left over!!! Geno.
Read your own post above, "full and very expensive" the operative word being "full". Not rebuilding an engine during a full and very expensive restoration? Remind me to never buy a car you had restored! Ill stick to my $200K plus for a full restoration.
An awful lot of discussion about this poor little car.... Will someone just go ahead and buy this beast already? Then dissect it in their garage, post a ton of photos, and then sell all the parts off on Ebay....LOL
