What constitutes an Exotic car? | Page 7 | FerrariChat

What constitutes an Exotic car?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Tokyo Drftr, Sep 24, 2009.

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  1. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    On the Esprit, you put the early ones in the "exotic" category. I was just curious. I don't think Lotus ever sold more than 300 (?) Esprits a year in the U.S., even later in the run with the V8s. In fact Lotus makes Ferrari look huge. I doubt I've seen a dozen on the road in the last decade I've lived in San Diego.

    NSX is a hard call for me, because the interior has a lot of Acura Legend/Honda Accord to it, even if the engine/suspension are bespoke. The Audi R8 has a similar problem, in that it has the seats and instrumentation used in my Audi TT, which is just a nice normal car. So, I love the R8, but it's more corporate than exotic. Ditto the NSX. Best Honda ever? Yes. Exotic? Too rational. The Countach, Diablo, 308, Testarossa, etc., were all pretty over-the-top cars with a lot of design hyperbole (scissor doors, wings, conical air intakes, curved fenders, massive strakes, etc.)

    911 Turbo was/is a great car, but the vast majority of Turbo parts found their way into the normal 911 over the years, including the "Turbo-look" body with flares and whaletail. I don't think many of us would call the 911 exotic, so it's a stretch to call the Turbo that.

    OTOH, the Koenigsegg, Pagani, Ferrari F430 and others aren't variations of a common car, and they come from niche marques. You have to be a serious enthusiast to even know what a Pagani is, or to have visited a Ferrari dealership in earnest. And the Lamborghini Countach -- rare, startling even now, wholly impractical, unique in its design and obviously built in a workshop one by one -- is probably still the poster child exotic car.

    For many of the other cars mentioned here (Dodge, Chevrolet, Acura/Honda), there are probably a dozen dealerships in any major city, and you pretty much buy/own/drive them like any normal car. You can't drive more than a few blocks without seeing a vehicle made by these manufacturers, which makes even their high-end efforts less exotic and more mainstream, IMHO.
     
  2. jssans

    jssans Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2005
    839
    St. Louis
    Full Name:
    Josh
    I would say any car that is made of exotic materials & cutting edge tech for it's time.
    I would also say it would have posters & movie/TV exposer(the mystique factor).
    I would consider the DeLorean exotic.
     
  3. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
    1,421
    S. Glastonbury, CT.
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    Mike
    #153 mj_duell, Oct 8, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
    That is the design of the car, but my statement is very true. The original MSRP of the Viper was in direct competition against the Corvette for sales (Around $50,000.00 1989 – 1992 dollars). Its layout places it squarely in the market for buyers of Corvettes or other two seat, front engine, rear drive buyers. Was it minimalist, Yes, but that does not change the demographic.

    Marketing did rely on the reto-Cobra nostalgia in order to create a buzz I agree, but they were looking for market share and they new the buyers they were going after. My original point still is valid; The Viper is not an exotic if the Corvette isn’t.

    --Mike
     
  4. Challengehauler

    Challengehauler Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2008
    1,315
    NE Connecticut
    Full Name:
    DB
    If the mere presence of the vehicle gives you a stiff lower region...it is probably exotic. it's some chemical they put in the paint.
     
  5. Immanuel

    Immanuel Karting

    Jun 23, 2009
    156
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Ok Guys,
    Let me take in a step further. Viper is designed and built on a Monocoque frame partly designed from Lambo engineers. That frame just like Lambos, some exotic ferrari's, GT40,etc, is the recipe of a exotic high-performance supercar. Vette's Uni-body frame like mustang,chargers, and 99 percent of common cars out there,is not to be compared.......


    Marketing is a whole another conversation.................. Parent company Dodge should not have down played the Viper brand like a common sport car like the Vette. I mean some vette owners move on to Viper's becuase of its american exotic being.
     
  6. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Chrysler owned Lamborghini, so they got help with engine casting in the first gen Viper during the Lee Iacocca years. Then Chrysler got help from McLaren later when they were owned by Mercedes. (They also made the Chrysler Crossfire, an unfortunate rebody of the original Merc SLK chassis.)

    If you think of the Isuzu Impulse as a Lotus, or the Chrysler TC as a Maserati, then you can think of a Dodge Viper as a Lamborghini.

    Or, going the other way, you can think of it as the convertible version of the Dodge Ram SRT/10, which must be a Lamborghini pickup truck. :rolleyes:

    BTW, Corvettes have been fibreglass since the 1950s, not unit-body.

    Sorry, the Viper's probably the only interesting thing down at the Dodge showroom, but it's marketed and built as another Ram Tough, American-built Dodge. It's exotic only in the sense the Plymouth Prowler was exotic.
     
  7. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    #157 mj_duell, Oct 12, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
    Ummmm...No. The Corvettes chassis is far from a unibody and is built on one of two frames, hydroformed aluminum or steel. It would be impossible to build a unibody Corvette out of fiberglass. The parts for the body are bolted to the frame and only the frame is stressed. As for your first statement, which I'm sorry I'm laughing..., Monocoque is related to unibody by definition. Having owned a monocoque GT40 chassis I think I would know:

    From Wiki:
    "Unibody, or unitary construction is related to monocoque construction, where the body is integrated with the chassis into a single unit, except that the body (or skin) is not stressed at all and is not part of the load bearing chassis. A welded unit body is the predominant automobile construction technology today, for example the Pontiac Fiero."

    Oh and as for the frame of the Viper, its a tubular steel frame with resin transfer molding fiberglass, not monocoque. A Camery is closer as its body is the stressed chassis.

    Lastly, as for Lamborghini they were a part of the design and construction of the V-10, but not the chassis. "Team Viper" designed the chassis here in the U.S. in March of 1989.

    All these facts are available to the public if you know where to look. A frame, tubular or hydroformed aluminum is still a frame. The Viper and the Corvette are in the same league. They are both exotic or they both aren't. Corvette guys usually buy Corvettes and with the introduction of the 427 powered Z06 and the new ZR1, I don't see a lot of brand hopping. Oh, one last thing...look up facts that are public knowledge and post the link to the info. I will not counter an established fact. Try to keep this thread sane and keep in mind this is not personal here, just a discussion forum.

    --Mike
     
  8. ryankjb

    ryankjb Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2006
    1,071
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    I'd like to read that too.
     
  9. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2005
    72,505
    Las Vegas Nevada
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    As Ive said, Im a huge Viper fan and prefer them to most other cars including most of Ferraris offerings...however, you are borderline trollish in your posts that are filled with incorrect statements.

    To be honest, and no disrespect, you are kind of giving Viper owners a bad name !
     
  10. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

    Jun 7, 2006
    1,769
    Toledo, Ohio
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    Tony K.
    Everybody, please just agree with him and let this thread die! ;)
     
  11. Immanuel

    Immanuel Karting

    Jun 23, 2009
    156
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Your joking right? or still denial.... Mr. Viper owner yourself!!!! Whats incorrect with statements on here? Other than the blank ideals and incorrect statments on this forum. Everything I am saying and have been said on here is true based off of facts online-offline and experience with dealing with these cars first hand. You can keep looking over it and write it off as trolling but................ I proves my first point. You are still in denial. And it is OK...
     
  12. Immanuel

    Immanuel Karting

    Jun 23, 2009
    156
    Philadelphia, Pa
    I have learned a long time ago, that you cant fight the truth.................
     
  13. Immanuel

    Immanuel Karting

    Jun 23, 2009
    156
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Ok, will post pictures of the frame differences if you dont understand my words..... To slow it down and make things easier for you, I have pictures. If you strip these two cars down you will see a difference between a Viper frame and a Vette ZR1 Chassis. Now look at the picture of the common unibody constrution. What looks close to Unibody?

    Viper frame picture: www.aspnerd.com/jeff/images/bonev1.jpg

    Vette frame picture: www.cartype.com/pics/3710/small/z06_frame2.jpg

    Unibody vs frame: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.carfax.com/img/car_buying/unibody_fig1.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.carfax.com/car_buying/car_frames.cfx&usg=__XWBuQit4dE5GWb272Cwh4nYrSow=&h=405&w=540&sz=49&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=Dc1H94Mx95I_mM:&tbnh=99&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dunibody%2Bframe%26hl%3Den
     
  14. Immanuel

    Immanuel Karting

    Jun 23, 2009
    156
    Philadelphia, Pa
    #164 Immanuel, Oct 13, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
    Looks like Bullfighter and you need to be homework buddys!!!!!!!!!! How many links do you need? I will help you. First off it actually is threaded here!!!!! http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253465&highlight=ferrari+v10
    Shocking huh!!!!! :)

    And here is more, if you need more truth to back up the truth of the truth.. HEHE!!! Guys get real.........

    1. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/10/report-next-gen-dodge-viper-could-get-ferrari-derived-v10/

    2. http://jalopnik.com/5334771/next-viper-could-get-ferrari-v10

    3. And to make it official for the ones still in denial on Ferrarichat Car and driver mag: http://blog.caranddriver.com/rumor-mill-viper-to-get-ferraserati-v-10/
     
  15. arpadkal

    arpadkal Rookie

    Oct 11, 2009
    19
    North Wales, PA
    Would a Bricklin SV-1 count as an exotic car? It counts in term of production. (1400 a year) Looks, exotic with power gullwing doors (keep in mind this was the mid 1970's) power not so exotic coming from a Ford or AMC V8.
     
  16. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
    1,421
    S. Glastonbury, CT.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #166 mj_duell, Oct 13, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
    It's amazing how little you understand. The Viper picture is of a frame, period. It's tubular, doesn't matter the shape, could be square, have plates, doesn't matter. Same goes for the corvette frame picture. They are skeletons (frames) not unibody and definately not monocoque. The difference is obvious. Again because I know you are slow, monocoque is when the actual structure of the body is used as the chassis, such as the GT40 or the Ferrari Enzo. They do not have tubes or frame work in the body, the body itself is the chassis and connection point for the suspension.

    This is Monocoque:

    http://www.gt40club.com/gt40shell.jpg

    http://www.web-cars.com/images/enzo_img/chassis_a.jpg

    Monocoque chassis take a very long time and a lot of money to produce and although very rigid its not very forgiving if wrecked, two things that keep any major manufacturer, say Dodge for instnace from using that method. Oh, and just so keep things interesting, even though the picture of the corvette "frame" is just a frame, it looks a lot closer to the GT40 monocoque than the tractor frame you pictured for the Viper LOL.

    Get a book junior, I suggest Herb Adams "Chassis Engineering" so maybe you can learn something. This is not about how the picture you posts might look to you, its about the "facts" as you put it. I have read all your posts here and they are filled with mistakes and just plain stupidity. I have built 2 tube chassis Cobra race cars, 2 Race perpared Corvettes, 1 BMW for track use and the GT40 and that does not include my other cars. Don't tell me what you think you know, prove it. All you have done here is prove you don't even know what is in the pictures you post. Oh, this is great...I just noticed that the Viper frame does not have a roof or halo bar or windshield hoop, hmmmmm... I think I will go and look up chassis rigidity rating for both the Viper and Vette and post them for you.

    Do me a favor and bring up racing. That would be the best. Answer me this about the lowly Corvette, How many wins over the Viper does the Corvette hold in the last 10 years at Lemans? How about the American Lemans Series? SCCA maybe? I will be happy to post that data for you ;).

    A troll for sure. Highly doubt this boy even has a Viper or he would know his car better.

    --Mike
     
  17. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Immanuel.

    You need to dial it way back.

    While we all understand your passion, your approach here; vulgar one minute, crass the next, followed by rude and abusive, doesn't fit this forum.

    Yin gave it a shot, warning you with as gentle a nudge as any moderator here can, but you appear to be ignoring that.

    Take a day off, and return tomorrow with a fresh outlook on life.

    24 HR ban, out you go.

    DM
     
  18. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
    1,421
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    Mike
  19. Tokyo Drftr

    Tokyo Drftr Formula 3

    Jan 18, 2009
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    Ро&#1081
    WOW i started this thread and it was meant to be a harmless question......go figure........amazing how opinions and simple inquires can be construed as an attack.....
     
  20. WJGESQ

    WJGESQ Formula 3

    Dec 30, 2004
    1,477
    Is not the exotic status obtained primarily from a car's ability to far exceed the performance of a "normal" car?
     
  21. cig1

    cig1 F1 Rookie

    May 3, 2005
    2,914
    In front of you
    No ... that just means it a fast car

    G
     
  22. Huskerbill

    Huskerbill F1 Rookie

    Sep 6, 2004
    4,126
    Oconomowoc, WI
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    Bill
    Funny thing is that I find the early Viper to be one of the best looking cars ever made. Whenever I see an old SRT-10 Viper, I stop and take a good, long look. They really were a well-designed roadster. And the engine is about as bulletproof as they come.

    I have always wanted to pick one up. Probably will someday. For 400hp and a bulletproof motor in a car that will always look good, you can't beat it for $17k.
     
  23. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    I have no arguement there. I like the looks and the power of the Viper too. I remember the pictures and marketing when it first came out. Huge response.
     
  24. chaparralman

    chaparralman Karting

    Jan 30, 2008
    83
    #174 chaparralman, Oct 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Vipers are not exotics, because exotics break.

    Vipers are for the real world.

    While the next guy's exotic is in the shop getting a gillion dollar major service, or he put it away because it is raining so it doesn't fiz like an Alka Seltzer tablet, or he doesn't want to put miles on it, or he didn't go out on the track because he can't drive, or he is out giving the next exotic owner a reach a'..... the Viper will be out pounding the tarmac with that guy's girlfriend in the passenger seat.

    I think this picture sums it up. A friend told me about this thread and I had to post what I saw.


    Sincerely F-Chat's favorite guy!

    PS. ROTFLMAO :D
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,198
    Lecusay
     

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