Who has had a belt snap before recommended interval | FerrariChat

Who has had a belt snap before recommended interval

Discussion in '308/328' started by BassMan, Mar 26, 2009.

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  1. BassMan

    BassMan Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2008
    626
    Long Island, NY
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    Andy
    There is another thread asking who has pushed the Major service the farthest without incident.

    ie "who got away with it"

    The natural flipside is who had a problem withing the recommended time frame - 3yr / 15k.

    Probably some of our mechanic friends would have the most such stories.
     
  2. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
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    Andy
    When my belt snapped my pants fell right to the floor. Boy was I surprised. Now I know why you have to change belts every couple of years.
     
  3. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ

    Jun 5, 2001
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    The amazing thing is that if you read the posts, given that there are thousands of Ferraris around, there is probably only less than a dozen documented failures. Think about those percentages. If you can't handle the fear and cost, then get a 430. No belts.

    Art
     
  4. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    The stupid thing to me about belts is that they were developed as a cheaper alternative to a chain. Nobody builds a maximum performance engine and, if the engine was originally used belts, leaves the belts on it to drive the camshaft(s). They change to either chain or gear drive. I'm surprised there are no commonly available conversions for these engines but, of course mods would be required to allow oil to be supplied to the gears/chain and returned to the engine sump.

    I've always felt that this application was the worst possible for a belt. But obviously nobody in the auto industry asked me and the reality is that they work fine for the most part. But the physical layout of the 3x8 cams, tensioner and crank screams for a chain or gear...
     
  5. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    Feb 7, 2002
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    Barry Wolinsky
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Barry- Do you not know that is an example from a 12 cylinder, so naturally it does not count? You and I already know the correct answer and our belts will never break.

    Mike- One reason belts were introduced was they were quieter and another was they were cheaper. At least for the manufacturer. Ferrari changed back to chains when the trend to lower maintenance costs and longer periods between maintenance became prevalent in the industry.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  7. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
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    The 308 has a huge rear weight bias. So if you were designing a car from the ground up, like Ferrari did, why wouldn't you consider all the weight saving of belts. I believe there is a 30 - 50 lb savings when you consider the weight of the current pulleys and belts compared to double row steel gears, double row chains more robust tensioners, and the housing to seal them in. I think it was a good call on their part.
     
  8. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    I was at Algar Ferrari a few years ago when they were repairing (that's an understatement) an engine that had experienced a belt failure. Was not a 308, my recollection was 5 valves per cylinder so probably a 355, right?

    What a mess it was.

    Don't recall what the mechanic said it was gonna cost, but I do remember being staggered by the number.

    DM
     
  9. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    Mike 996
    The weight of sprockets over gears is minimal. A double roller timing chain of the length necessary might weigh a couple of pounds. The total weight difference could not exceed 10 lbs and there would be no issue with worrying about belts. Remember, when car engines went to cam belt drive, belt replacing became normal maint, usually at around 60k miles. With chains there was no periodic maint at all. Belts were not installed to make engines better, chains were removed to make engines cheaper. As I said in a different post, nobody leaves a belt drive cam system in a car that is being modified for high performance. They go "back" to a chain or gear drive.
     
  10. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
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    Mar 14, 2005
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    H-Town, Tejas
    Good post. Interestingly enough that the Lambo V8 (Urraco P250) that preceded the Ferrari V8 started off with timing belts and then
    moved to chains a few years later with the P300.
     
  11. ckracing

    ckracing Formula Junior

    May 20, 2006
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    Jacksonville,Florida
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    Charles
    This is one time Ferrari should have copied the 911 timing chain design.
    Porsche used 3 different tensioner designs, first one used a primed oil tensioner. 2nd used a sealed hydraulic tensioner then Porsche went to a sealed oil fed chain tensioner.
    The chains never received any oil. Mercedes uses a similar design.

    There was a thread containing info where someone designed a chain conversion for the 308.
    I think it was expensive.
     
  12. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    Ferrari went to belts not just for cost and weight reasons but also for packaging reasons. A belt can be much more conveniently packaged (translation: smaller) than a belt. Chains would have meant moving the engine back a few inches, which would have meant the transaxle moves back by the same amount, forcing the wheelbase to lengthen...and so on....
     
  13. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    #14 miketuason, Mar 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I think this is the one!
    It has been done.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    I'd be interested in reading that thread...not that I am going to do it, but just curious.
     
  15. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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  16. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #17 mike996, Mar 27, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
    Hard to tell from the small pic - I'm trying to figure out where the lubrication for the chain is coming from...must be there someplace!

    Looks nice and is narrower front to back than a belt has to be. Another advantage to a chain. Amazing how we humans can come up with a "modern" way that doesn't work as well as what came before. THEN, we change back to the old way and sell that as an improvement. "ALL Nissan interference engines are NOW equipped with chain driven camshafts for improved reliability and performance!" Used to be that ALL engines had chain driven cams...

    We are a bizarre species! ;)
     
  17. OCFerrari

    OCFerrari Karting

    Jan 20, 2009
    124
    The 308 is pretty piggish in weight, I don't think 30 extra lbs are the reason they did it. (Although I doubt going to chains would add anywhere near 30 lbs).
     
  18. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    #19 miketuason, Mar 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Mike I thinks that's the lubrication hoses down below.
    Read about it here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185300&highlight=308+chain+drive&page=5
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    AH yes, I see it!
     

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