Yes, and that is when you have the car in. It was Massa who held his line but DC who cut off. Massa can't vanish into thin air and since they wére racing for position, DC's move on Massa like he (Massa) wasn't even there would necessarily result in a collision. Blaming the colision on Massa, who went perfectly clean down the inside of DC's Redbull, is just testament to the poor judgement of the Massa-bashers, or at least to their hastiness in depicting him as a lousy driver. Thankfully the Gestione knows better.
Why don't you watch the race and relax on the expectations that F should dominate in a very predictable fashion. LH spun out and made an amalgam of mistakes last season. Massa did not run into DC. They ran into each other.
It takes two to tango... rules of racing are that if you're behind by 1/2 a car you don't have the position. Massa was behind 1/2 a car, he didn't have the position. Just putting your front wheels in front of the rear wheels of the other guy ain't whats called a pass - it's called foolish optimism. DC could have changed his line, Massa could have slowed when he realize he didn't have the corner. Bottom line is it was DC's corner - ergo the fault is Massas.
So was Kimi's Really? How does that work in your brain? Sure, it is not difficult to 'understand' Kimi's mistakes. He put a wheel on the grass under the braking. That'll make the car spin as it did. Stupid mistake. He over shot the corner by a long shot. Again, stupid mistake. Not mistakes you'd think a freshly crowned worldchampion would make, but he did. Second, I do not really understand why you argue that Kimi's mistakes are 'understandable' as opposed to Massa's mistakes, but why would you say that Kimi's mistakes were when he tried to pass Kovalainen and Glock, but not say that Massa's mistakes were made while trying to pass Kovailanen and Coulthard? Where's the difference?
This line of thinking is seriously flawed. There is the racing line that all drivers take. In ANY form of racing, just having a portion of your car next to a portion of the other car is not called a pass. By the logic displayed above, all any driver needs to do is keep his front wheels next to the other guys rear wheels and expect the other guy to back off and give up the spot? Racing doesn't work that way, never has, never will. Massa ought to know this, and it was a rookie and overly optimistic mistake.
Kimi > Massa Massa's mistakes without the TC were very disappointing. Spinning off in the first corner with no contact is just ridiculous, as for the accident with DC that seems to be something he has done before by just making a stupid decision going into a corner. Kimi certainly wasn't perfect today either hitting the grass and spinning around a bit as well as his "pass" to get by Heikki, but I'll give the engine excuse for his getting passed in the end. However saying that Kimi was fighting for position and Massa wasn't is moronic, Massa was trying to stay in the front on the first turn and was fighting for position with DC when the crash happened. I'm all for the debate of who's better between the two, and I do think today was a telling sign, but at least come up with legitimate reasons for why you're choosing one side or the other. Saying one was fighting for position and the other one wasn't is like saying one was in an F1 race and the other was playing an F1 video game.
That would only be correct of Massa didn't have a clean turn in and would understeer off the line into DC or ran into the back of his car. But whadda you know? DC left the room, Massa went for it (which is called...well...racing...), got along side and only then DC decided to take back the raceline he had already lost by leaving the door open in the first place. That is your basic one on one. Massa was never obliged to let DC take a position back he had already lost. And if he was, where are Redbulls protests at the racestewards?
BS. Both drivers made mistakes. Frankly, it would make more sense for you to find another way of viewing the races because Massa's not going anywhere. >absolutely horrible yesterday, HORRIBLE. like I said, we get a real race, F has poor results, and the bashing begins. Petty.
Just watch the footage again: Massa had a clean turn in ON the race line. Who was off the race line leaving the door wide open for Massa to make a clean turn in? That would be DC. So when DC tried to claim back the race line when Massa was allready commited who steered into who? DC steered into Massa, not the other way around. It is really very simple.
This is a funny link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eodMd28g0tM One of the commentators is Martin Brundle and he seems to be arguing the case for Massa. Which is remarkable since Brundle is not only a commentator but also Coulthards manager. And towards the end, Coulthard seems to agree with you. On Dutch television the general concensus is supportive of Massa as well.
What is so ridiculous about it? The best drivers have and will spin out. As for the successful pass on DC, I hope he continues to take such chances. And hopefully the engine will be more reliable than the drivers.
Actually after watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eodMd28g0tM he had more than 1/2 a car and had the line. So, unfortunately, your bashing of Massa is baseless, as per usual.
I don't know what you mean by "a clean turn in". Whether you are able to make the turn at the speed you're at has nothing to do with whether or not you made the pass. Massa was BEHIND DC at the turn-in, thats why he crunched into the middle of DC's car with his front wheel. He didn't have the turn and he didn't have the line- simple as that. Massa went into the turn deep... fast in, slow out. That can work IF you can make the pass on the other guy before the turn. Massa didn't. He didn't have the turn and found himself behind DC but taking the apex of the turn - DC took the line he was aiming at and Massa was there (and behind him). Massa tried an optimistic move and relied on DC's charity to give him the position. Bad assumption for Massa and a rookie mistake.
yes it is very simple. If you only have your front wheels next to the back wheels of the other guy, that ain't a pass. The trailing car has the responsibility to yield to the car in front. That happens in every corner of every race - it's not hard to park your wheels next to the guy in fronts rear wheels. If all drivers did that then only one car would ever finish the race. Massa didn't have the turn - the line he took is irrelevant, he had no business taking that line if he couldn't make the pass - and he couldn't. All he could do was get part way up DC's car. When DC took the turn as was expected, Massa had already horned his way into the spot - which woudl have been OK had Massa made the pass (which is considered to be more than 1/2 way up the leading car). Massa didn't make the pass and crashed into Coulthard.
+1 SRTMike, also take a look at where Massa would have taken the turn had he not hit DC, he would have had more than half the car over the curb. If DC had avoided Massa, DC still would have passed him because Massa would have kept going straight and DC would still be on the better line. I do hope that DC "Kick 3 colors of $h** out of the little bas****"
He was very clearly behind DC - he was right at the halfway point. DC had the position. Massa took an inside (and optimistic) line - he knew DC was going to turn in to the apex, and Massa hadn't made the pass by that point. He only even got close when DC was already turning in. If you watch more of the video, you see Massa go OFF LINE to try to run down the inside - he was the guy off the line, not DC. He was half on the grass just trying to make the turn and he was behind DC through the entire corner. That was all Massas fault. And the basis of bashing Massa is that he sucks. Got beaten by EVERY teammate he ever ran against - never once beat any of them. Spins out with no contact in the first turn. Finishes 4th in the WDC last year despite being in arguably the best car. He sucks, pure and simple and there are many drivers who ought to get that drive before him. Before you argue the point, just look at his performances - they are nothing but mediocre.
Viewing that youtube clip - Massa's front tire was even with the front of DC's pod. It was Massa's corner at that point. Anyway, I think people are being too hard on Massa compared to KR. They both did badly, and neither finished. Kimi also made a bad pass , and was lucky that he didn't stuff the car into the barrier and end his race at that point. I don't think we can make a determination based only on this race of who is the better driver. They both spun out a lot. And you people who believe that Kimi was trying to spin out under team orders to understand the car's dynamics, you are clinically delusional. They can take all the data they want on spin outs in practice. not races
I would laugh my ass of if anyone seriously wants to put forth a case that Massa is the better of the two Ferrari drivers. Kimi has been a star since he came into F1, coming very close to winning the WDC multiple times (usually stymied by a crap car). Massa has never been a WDC contender. Everyone knows Kimi is the #1 driver at Ferrari and Massa is the #2 - nobody seriously thinks anything different. Is there really anyone who thinks Massa is more talented as a driver than Kimi? If so, how come he's always come 2nd to every teammate he's ever had? And how come Kimi makes the huge bucks and could go to any team on the grid whenever he wants? And how come Kimi is the one with a WDC to his name?
'Clearly' Didn't you say it takes two to tango ... Clearly, since you don't suck, you should move on.
Hahaha. Yeah, next time he should take my RX7 to the F1 race. He might have a better time controlling it. No TC though, don't hold your breath.
Not trying to get into this discussion but, i would go with 50/50. massa had 2/3 of the way on DC's car and right as they went through the apex coulthard tried to shut the door on him. Way too late if you ask me. DC should have given him more room, but at the same time it seems Massa was trying to push his way past DC. It could go either way, but Varsha, Matchett and Hobbs seem to go to Massa's side on that one.
